Author Topic: Devadatta  (Read 888 times)

Offline IchW1LL

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Devadatta
« on: June 17, 2019, 08:47:44 pm »
"Also, next, O good man! Devadatta, the evil-hearted one, was greedy beyond measure. He ate a lot of butter and got a headache and a swollen belly, and the pain was so great that he could not endure it. He said: "Namo Buddhaya, namo Buddhaya!" At that time, I was living in the castle-town of Ujjaini. Hearing his voice, pity overtook me. Then Devadatta saw me come to him, rub his head and belly, give him hot salt water and make him partake of it. Having partaken of it, he regained his health. O good man! I did not go to where Devadatta was, rub his head and belly, or give him hot water. O good man! All of this arose from the power of virtue inherent in the good deed of loving-kindness, so that Devadatta was able to see all of this.
please tell me what you think of this story.

Offline stevie

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2019, 12:01:17 am »
Dear IchW1LL,

where is that from?
།བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ།

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2019, 02:48:32 am »
Why on earth would you want to study stories like that? They are obviously written for others in another time and place so I ignore them and carry on following the path.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline IchW1LL

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2019, 06:25:49 pm »
Dear IchW1LL,

where is that from?

parinirvana sutra.

Offline IchW1LL

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2019, 06:26:30 pm »
Why on earth would you want to study stories like that? They are obviously written for others in another time and place so I ignore them and carry on following the path.

It is from the buddha.

Offline stevie

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2019, 10:23:33 pm »
Dear IchW1LL,

where is that from?

parinirvana sutra.

Dear IchW1LL,

can you provide a link to the version of this sutra you are referring to? The version I found does not have that text fragment.
།བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ།

Offline IchW1LL

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2019, 08:12:38 pm »
Dear IchW1LL,

where is that from?

parinirvana sutra.

Dear IchW1LL,

can you provide a link to the version of this sutra you are referring to? The version I found does not have that text fragment.
https://www.nirvanasutra.net/nirvanasutrao.htm

Offline stevie

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2019, 01:27:01 am »
Dear IchW1LL,

thank you. Obviously a sutra of a special kind. I think there are quite some Mahayana sutras of that kind. Maybe that is why I mostly prefer commentaries as far as Mahayana is concerned.

 :anjali:
།བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ།

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2019, 02:59:57 am »
Why on earth would you want to study stories like that? They are obviously written for others in another time and place so I ignore them and carry on following the path.

It is from the buddha.

If that was from the Buddha then he was a lesser being than I took him for. I suspect, however, that it isn't, and will continue to raise my scepticism level to red alert when I read stuff like that.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Chaz

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2019, 03:35:28 am »
Why on earth would you want to study stories like that? They are obviously written for others in another time and place so I ignore them and carry on following the path.

It is from the buddha.

If that was from the Buddha then he was a lesser being than I took him for. I suspect, however, that it isn't, and will continue to raise my scepticism level to red alert when I read stuff like that.

Why do you say that?

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2019, 02:38:55 am »
It's a very silly story, and if I see any like this I try to ignore them. Rub someone's belly because they ate too much butter? Come on.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Chaz

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2019, 04:36:05 am »
It's a very silly story, and if I see any like this I try to ignore them. Rub someone's belly because they ate too much butter? Come on.

Ok.  Just curious.

Offline MarasAndBuddhas

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2019, 11:51:57 am »
It's a very silly story, and if I see any like this I try to ignore them. Rub someone's belly because they ate too much butter? Come on.

 :bigtears:

fine! I guess there's always this debate about when it's suitable to help "the wicked". When hath the buddha neglected the foolish? Stillpointdancer, most excellent! It is, stillpointdancer, as if someone were to set up something that had been knocked down, or to reveal what had been hidden, or to point out the right path to a man who had got lost, or to bring an oil lamp into a dark place so that those with eyes could see what was there — just so has stillpointdancer shown me the truth in various ways!

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2019, 01:42:06 am »
Sorry if I seemed a bit flippant guys. I do read the Dharma, but prefer commentaries to accompany them, to get a feel for different understandings of what are writings set in a different time and culture. Not only that but I enjoy contemporary discussions to see how things relate to our time and place. My strength and weakness is in trying to get to the meaning for myself, which I can do but can lose things along the way too, so am grateful to others who can point out what I may have missed.   
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline MarasAndBuddhas

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Re: Devadatta
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2019, 04:48:03 am »
Sorry if I seemed a bit flippant guys. I do read the Dharma, but prefer commentaries to accompany them, to get a feel for different understandings of what are writings set in a different time and culture. Not only that but I enjoy contemporary discussions to see how things relate to our time and place. My strength and weakness is in trying to get to the meaning for myself, which I can do but can lose things along the way too, so am grateful to others who can point out what I may have missed.

i feel like all people have some sort of a wisdom to offer me, which is why commentaries are very helpful. As far as The Buddha is concerned, the thing that's really lame about the pali canon is there's so much repetition! The translator even removed some and replaced it with "...", but that phrase i posted above almost LITERALLY appears in every sutta.

 


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