Author Topic: Heart Sutra questions  (Read 3283 times)

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2014, 07:02:55 pm »
Well,

I had generally come under the assumption that the historical Buddha Siddhartha Gautama had not traveled further than India. (The Northern UttarKapredesh region is where he assumed is wanderings) How do you supposed to translate Buddhism to America or Canada or Mexico? I'm not sure how that works. Since it is predominately an Asian-inspired religion (The populist region of Asia) ...

Is the Dharma a universal truth? Many people believe it is. If this is so, then not only is it applicable to all sentient beings regardless of race, but it must also be able to exist outside of an Asian/Indo-Aryan understanding, existing in and of itself alone.

If it isn't applicable to all sentient beings and can't exist outside of such an understanding, then it's an "exclusive" for the select or privileged few, actually no different than the caste system that the Buddha rejected, whereby it would be a falsehood, something that certainly wouldn't be noble, long enough praise worthy.

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2014, 07:08:24 pm »
DK, you are particularly bad on your 14 year old girl texting jargon  :teehee:

It might have something to do with the fact that I'm not a 14 year old girl  :teehee:

Offline ZenFred

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2014, 07:09:47 pm »
I have a misspent year in flying virtual spaceships with virtual friends. http://www.eveonline.com/

Offline Awakened_Angel

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2014, 11:37:20 pm »
hi there

just wondering...

heart suta commentary mentioned about duality...

not quite grasp its notion... is it neither both?

eg. anatta.. there is neither a self nor there is not a self

Offline Optimus Prime

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2014, 07:02:43 pm »
heart suta commentary mentioned about duality...

not quite grasp its notion... is it neither both?

eg. anatta.. there is neither a self nor there is not a self

Duality means just the opposite natures of things - like light and dark, yin and yang, arisings and ceasings, birth and death.

Anatta (not-self) - means your body and mental activity (the 5 skandhas), whether taken as a whole or individually, are not fit to be regarded as self.  So your body is not you, the sensations you feel through the body are not you, what you perceive through your body is not you, formations are not you and sensory consciousness arising through the body is not you.  See the Anattalakkhana Sutta where the body explains anatta following this line of reasoning.  It can not be inferred from this that there is no self - you can only say that there is no self in the 5 skandhas - that's all.

Don't try to relate non-duality with anatta just yet.  Learn them separately first - but still, they're not easy to learn by themselves either.

Offline Awakened_Angel

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2014, 10:16:11 pm »
FROM MY UNDERSTANDING......

ANATTA - THERAVADA.. NEITHER EXIST NOR DO NOT EXIST

DUALITY - MAHAYANA... THE EXTREME OF EXISTENCE AND NON EXISTENCE

Offline Optimus Prime

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2014, 05:55:59 am »
Here's one way to understand it.

- If you look at something and the lights are on - you say you see.
- If you turn off the lights - you say that you don't see.

But is that right?

In actual fact, you actually DO see in both cases.  You see when there's light and you ALSO "see" the darkness.  The dualistic phenomena of light and dark are things that you are "aware of" BUT "that which is aware" aware of the light and dark - is neither light nor dark.  Light and darkness are dual.  But the awareness that perceives the light and darkness is non dual.

Let's take another example. 

- Say you ring a bell - you say that you hear.
- When the bell has stopped ringing - you say that you don't hear.

But is that right?

In both cases, you do hear.  You hear the sound and you actually do hear the silence too.  The phenomena of sound and silence are dual, but that which is aware of the sound and silence is not dual.

This is one way that dualism vs non-dualism can be understood.

Offline Awakened_Angel

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2014, 06:04:28 am »
Well said...

Is sunyata anatta?.

Offline Optimus Prime

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2014, 05:21:28 am »
Well said...

Is sunyata anatta?.

Do you mean is emptiness the same as not self?

Offline Awakened_Angel

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2014, 05:48:00 am »
Yeap

My understanding of sunyata/anatta is that nothing exist in single entiti. Everything is made of smaller n smaller n smaller parts that constitute itself. Everything is interdependent

Offline DaoFlow

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2014, 05:44:16 pm »
Interesting comments on nothing at all.  :wacky:

hahah

Offline mosestouya

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2014, 09:13:46 am »
Here I go again...
I posted recently on the topic of Emptiness with a video that tries to explain a new concept of the meaning of Emptiness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sluCUBAOFzw&feature=youtu.be

Offline NoEssentialNature

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2014, 07:05:18 pm »
When the sutra says "All dharmas are marked with emptiness" I had interpreted that as meaning:

"All teachings are about/are referring to emptiness."

but the commentary seems to say i was using a wrong meaning of the word dharma and that the meaning is:

"All existence is emptiness."

Granted even if the second interpretation is more correct, it is still true that all teachings refer to emptiness since all existence, that is anything a teaching could potentially refer to, is emptiness.

There are technical terms to be unravelled here. Dharmas: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmas#Buddhist_phenomenology So this is a view in which self and physical phenomena have already been set within a larger truth, mental phenomena. Emptiness is the larger truth in which that too is set, referring to anything inherent independent or persistent. Look carefully at the words dharmas, and emptiness. Do not rush at them with preconceptions.

It is interesting to read about a sentence that is 'true and appropriate in all times and situations' - this non-technical non-jargony expression is very clear statement of emptiness: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_too_shall_pass

Offline Roope

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2015, 12:23:35 pm »
In my understanding the only Dharma is emptiness itself, and it contains no teaching. All other Dharmas are phenomenal. They're perceivable and require a perceiver, a subject, and that's basically duality which only means illusion since there is only emptiness (actually not even that but more silent and incomprehensible than that). So actually even illusion doesn't really exist. Illusion is empty of an actual someone who could fall asleep or wake up, although "someone" itself is an illusion. Pretty paradoxical when put into words... And there is no "All" to be empty, there is only emptiness. A chair, for example, is not a part of the all. A chair is not a chair, it is empty of "chairness". And there is no actual "it", no actual object to be empty even. Only emptiness/awareness (the word emptiness is just a pointer)... Anything thought about is not a thought even, its reality is empty awareness only. And there is no "awareness of". The conventional view is that there is an observer here being aware of an object over there. But that observer is a mere assumption with strong "familiar" emotional habit, a sense of an individual doer, chooser and a thinker mixed in (which is also empty awareness only) and the seemingly observed object is not an actual object but is also only emptiness/awareness/absolute/void whatever you wanna call it. There is no "over here" or "over there" or inside and outside since there is no actual subject, or it could also be said that the subject is everywhere. If the subject is everywhere no real objectivity can exist to it and hence it doesn't exist as a subject since a subject requires an object, away from itself. Could perhaps be said that the true subject is it's own object (awareness aware of awareness) but not in a dualistic sense. There's no observer to the feeling of being. Which is not really a feeling nor can it really be called neither being nor non-being. It's beyond concepts (ie. duality).

Not to discount the so-called direct experiencing. But basically the reality of the world is not objects, matter, multiplicity etc. but awareness (The Being which is unnameable really). Not aware of objects but aware of awareness only (which is taken to be the "me and the world" by the ordinary mind but is actually awareness only). Not to say that there are no thoughts, apparent subject and seeming objects, outside and inside. Those things seemingly appear but they are not what they are normally taken to be. A car is not a car but it is awareness. But it is also a car, not an actual object, but the suchness of the sound "car", the shape, the color and the totality of the so-called full-sensory experience.

Here's the Heart Sutra without commentary:

Prajñāpāramitā Hṛdaya Sūtra

Translated from Taishō Tripiṭaka volume 8, number 251

When Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva was practicing the profound Prajñāpāramitā, he illuminated the Five Skandhas and saw that they were all empty, and crossed over all suffering and affliction.

“Śāriputra, form is not different from emptiness, and emptiness is not different from form. Form itself is emptiness, and emptiness itself is form. Sensation, conception, synthesis, and discrimination are also such as this. Śāriputra, all dharmas are empty​—​they are neither created nor destroyed, neither defiled nor pure, and they neither increase nor diminish. This is because in emptiness there is no form, sensation, conception, synthesis, or discrimination. There are no eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, or thoughts. There are no forms, sounds, scents, tastes, sensations, or dharmas. There is no field of vision and there is no realm of thoughts. There is no ignorance nor elimination of ignorance, even up to and including no old age and death, nor elimination of old age and death. There is no suffering, its accumulation, its elimination, or a path. There is no understanding and no attaining.

“Because there is no attainment, bodhisattvas rely on Prajñāpāramitā, and their minds have no obstructions. Since there are no obstructions, they have no fears. Because they are detached from backwards dream-thinking, their final result is Nirvāṇa. Because all buddhas of the past, present, and future rely on Prajñāpāramitā, they attain Anuttarā Samyaksaṃbodhi. Therefore, know that Prajñāpāramitā is a great spiritual mantra, a great brilliant mantra, an unsurpassed mantra, and an unequalled mantra. The Prajñāpāramitā Mantra is spoken because it can truly remove all afflictions. The mantra is spoken thusly:

    gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā


http://lapislazulitexts.com/shorter_prajnaparamita_hrdaya_sutra.html
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 02:25:42 pm by Roope »

Offline Roope

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Re: Heart Sutra questions
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2015, 02:27:11 pm »
Interesting comments on nothing at all.  :wacky:

hahah

Not something but also not nothing. Both are concepts.

 


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