Author Topic: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered  (Read 4308 times)

Offline mosestouya

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The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« on: September 10, 2014, 11:38:49 am »
The Heart Sutra is a prayer that has been passed down by believers and teachers for generations. There is an idea that the meaning of 空 or Kuu in the Japanese translation - means Nothingness.
However in this YouTube video (
), it relates the idea of Kuu to a different theory.

I posted this onto this section because I thought it might be closer to the science of Buddhism rather than any other sections of the forum - although I may be wrong - please forgive me.

Moses

Offline NoEssentialNature

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2014, 10:17:41 pm »
Pretty sceptical about this. Buddha clearly stated hubs opposition to ascetic practices. And 'commander self' and 'on-site self'? Doesn't sound like Buddhism to me.

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2014, 02:00:03 am »
I tried to track down information in regard to this video, but could find anything of substance --- it's probably related to one of those new religious groups that keep popping up from time to time, more than likely small in size.

A new religious movement (NRM) is a religious community or spiritual group of modern origins, which has a peripheral place within its nation's dominant religious culture. NRMs may be novel in origin or they may be part of a wider religion, in which case they will be distinct from pre-existing denominations. Scholars studying the sociology of religion prefer to use this term as a neutral alternative to the word cult, which is often considered derogatory. Scholars continue to try to reach definitions and define boundaries. Scholars have estimated that NRMs now number in the tens of thousands world-wide, with most of their members living in Asia and Africa. Most have only a few members, some have thousands, and only very few have more than a million.

more here >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement

Offline mosestouya

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2014, 09:06:47 am »
Hi there !

Thanks for the comments.

#NoEssentialNature, you are right 'commander self' and 'on-site self' are not part of Buddhism.
And #Dharmakara, you are partly right, this video is created by a small group. But it is not an NRM.

The fundamental point of the video is to explain that the concept of 'Emptiness' or 'Nothing' as described in the Sutra is a concept that was part of a 'code' that has been waiting to be deciphered...

I am neither an expert on the deciphered code nor the original Sutra. So I barely understand the meaning of the video myself.
But I think it might serve as an option for us try to understand what the original Sutra was trying to relate.

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2014, 09:32:40 am »
Hi mosestouya.

It might help if you identify the group itself so that others might have a better understanding of where they're coming from --- also, there's a longer and shorter version of this particular sutra, not to mention various translations.


Offline NoEssentialNature

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2014, 07:13:19 am »
I am neither an expert on the deciphered code nor the original Sutra. So I barely understand the meaning of the video myself.
But I think it might serve as an option for us try to understand what the original Sutra was trying to relate.

Well worth reading around on the topic. However, it is one of the most profound sutras, so aiming to simply understand it is a mistake. It is a text the understanding of is deepened and enriched by practice, and practice by reading it. There are layers and layers to be understood.

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2016, 09:22:57 am »
I think a lot of people get caught up with emptiness in the Heart Sutra. It's difficult because the sutra can only be understood when you have had a glimpse of pranja wisdom during insight meditation- when you look back at it. Importantly, to get to pranja wisdom there is no thing to hold on to, not even emptiness, which you have to let go of too. When all 'things' are left behind you get to pranja wisdom, a state to 'dwell in' to reach 'full and perfect understanding'.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline serendipity

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2016, 01:50:34 am »
the word "空", or "emptiness", or "nothingness"  is used to describe the state of Nirvana 

empty of what?
empty of hallucination.

what you see with the eyes is hallucination
what you hear with the ears is hallucination
what you smell with the nose is hallucination
what you taste with the tongue is hallucination
what you touch with the body is hallucination
what you think with your brain is hallucination

In Nirvana, there is no such thing as hallucination;
therefore The Heart Sutra says "there are no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no brain... "

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2016, 02:38:11 am »
the word "空", or "emptiness", or "nothingness"  is used to describe the state of Nirvana 

empty of what?
empty of hallucination.

what you see with the eyes is hallucination
what you hear with the ears is hallucination
what you smell with the nose is hallucination
what you taste with the tongue is hallucination
what you touch with the body is hallucination
what you think with your brain is hallucination

In Nirvana, there is no such thing as hallucination;
therefore The Heart Sutra says "there are no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no brain... "
I think this is a mistranslation of hallucination, which means the apparent perception of something not present. The Heart Sutra is saying we have to go beyond everything we can sense or think about, beyond any sort of label. How we make sense of things now isn't how we sense of things during enlightenment, or what we understand them to be afterwards, but that doesn't mean they are hallucinations. Maybe illusion would be a better word? That we misinterpret the things that we sense? In the way that an illusionist does something, but we are tricked into thinking that something else has happened. We don't hallucinate during a magic show but are fooled by the illusions. What you see with your eyes is illusion.....
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline serendipity

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2016, 03:19:03 am »
what you see with the eyes is hallucination
....
what you think with your brain is hallucination

In Nirvana, there is no such thing as hallucination;
therefore The Heart Sutra says "there are no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no brain... "
I think this is a mistranslation of hallucination, which means the apparent perception of something not present.....
not a mistranslation at all
what you see with the eyes is hallucination, because what you see is in fact non-existent.

The buddhist Sutra says that when the 6 organs (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, brain) work together, they can make the in fact nonexistent universe appear realistic.   Anyone who believes in what they perceive with the 6 organs is living in hallucination.

A liberated person doesn't rely on the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and brain; therefore he/she is free  of hallucination; and is  living in "reality", called Nirvana, a sphere that can not be recognized by using eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and brain.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 03:45:14 am by serendipity »

Offline serendipity

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2016, 05:13:21 am »
the buddhist sutra says that "the universe is in fact non-existent"
evidence as follows:
1. The Lan kavatara Sutra
2. The Discourse on the Theory of Consciousness-only
 (Vijn~aptima^trata^siddhi-/sa^stra)




Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2016, 07:34:47 am »
The buddhist Sutra says that when the 6 organs (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, brain) work together, they can make the in fact nonexistent universe appear realistic.   ...and is  living in "reality", called Nirvana, a sphere that can not be recognized by using eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and brain.

I think you are muddling up traditions here.

The Heart Sutra describes the Bodhisattava using prajna wisdom to see the emptiness of the aggregates, and then attaining enlightenment.  Emptiness means empty of inherent existence, ie dependent on conditions.

The Heart Sutra says "attainment too is emptiness", so enlightenment is also empty of inherent existence, not some kind of absolute. And there is "emptiness of emptiness" which means that emptiness to is empty of inherent existence, also not an absolute.

The references to "no eye, ear, nose.."etc doesn't mean that the sense bases disappear, it is just saying that they are empty of inherent existence, ie dependent on conditions.

The Heart Sutra doesn't say the universe doesn't exist, it says that the aggregates are dependently arising and therefore "empty".
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 07:39:02 am by Spiny Norman »
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Offline serendipity

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2016, 02:51:21 pm »
The references to "no eye, ear, nose.."etc doesn't mean that the sense bases disappear, it is just saying that they are empty of inherent existence, ie dependent on conditions.
The word "NO" in such sentence as "No eye, ear, nose...etc" has the same meaning as that in "NO  ignorance"
"NO" simply means "doesn't have" or "without"

without eye, ear, nose......without ignorance

You define "No"as "empty of inherent existence";
your definition is indirect, which deviates from the direct meaning of the word.

"Without eyes" means "Bodhisattava doesn't rely on eyes", instead of the eyes disappearing

if a person doesn't rely on his eyes, his eyes become non-existent to him.
this is what "without eyes" means
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 07:51:00 pm by serendipity »

Offline serendipity

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2016, 03:24:42 pm »
the buddhist sutra tells disciples not to rely on the 6 organs (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body & brain):




according to the modern medical science, what we see with our eyes is actually the neural signals, instead of the real outside world.
more than 2 Thousand years ago, Buddha already knew about this.
For this reason, Buddha said that "outside world" doesn't really exist.
Never trust what you see with your eyes, (including ears, nose...brain)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 03:41:44 pm by serendipity »

Offline serendipity

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Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2016, 04:37:15 pm »
What The Heart Sutra dipcts is that:
during very deep meditation, Bodhisattava awakened to the fact that the Five Skandhas (Five Aggregates) are all hallucinations only; they don't really exist.
Rupa is no different from mirage. mirage is no different from Rupa
Rupa is mirage. mirage is Rupa
vedana, samjna, samskara, vijnana are all the same

Buddha used a metaphor to explain the situation:
1. a person with cataract sees fogs in the air
2. in reality, there are no fogs in the air

The five Skandhas are like the fogs seen by the cataract patients.
People of good eyesight see no fogs in the air.

The unverse is like the fogs, only seen by people with eye disease.
The sentients are all born with disease in their eyes, ears, nose...brain, so they see things that do not exist.

Bodhisattava is no longer dependent on eyes, ears, nose...brain as the source of knowing, so he no longer sees things.  No form, no shape, no image to see.  So Nirvana is called "emptiness"

"emptiness" means "without any earthly existence (caused by hallucinations)"


that's why the Heart Sutra says:
 "no eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, brain "
"no  sight, sound, smell, taste, touch dharma. "

« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 07:58:03 pm by serendipity »

 


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