4 or 6 element practice?

[Lobster]

I wonder if clicking here and selecting the elements.swf will work?
http://tmxxine.com/shrine3/

Otherwise if anyone can recommend some dropbox type service to host?

[Hanzze]

In the sutta commentaries there is advice to use a small amount of the actual element for reflection, eg a bowl of water.

Spiny

Can you explain more about that? *smile*

[Hanzze]

Hi Hanzee,

The six elements is a visualisation practice.

http://www.kamalashila.co.uk/blog-7/

I guess there is less "deeper" meaning in this essay, for sure it is nice. *smile* So how to bring such thing down on earth without the danger of some additional ideas?

[Spiny le Norman]

In the sutta commentaries there is advice to use a small amount of the actual element for reflection, eg a bowl of water.

Spiny

Can you explain more about that? *smile*

You can either visualise the element or have a little bit in front of you...though wind might be tricky.

Spiny

[Hanzze]

So that's what the sutta's say?  I guess it's maybe risky to suggest such things, the one or other eager beaver literalist might search for the wildest things, from tsunami, earth quack back to hurricanes and to the next city blaze to get better impressions. *smile*

[Spiny le Norman]

So that's what the sutta's say?  I guess it's maybe risky to suggest such things, the one or other eager beaver literalist might search for the wildest things, from tsunami, earth quack back to hurricanes and to the next city blaze to get better impressions. *smile*

I think the point is to get a real feel for the elements.  Which hopefully leads to some insight into anatta / sunyata.

Spiny

[Hanzze]

So that's what the sutta's say?  I guess it's maybe risky to suggest such things, the one or other eager beaver literalist might search for the wildest things, from tsunami, earth quack back to hurricanes and to the next city blaze to get better impressions. *smile*

I think the point is to get a real feel for the elements.  Which hopefully leads to some insight into anatta / sunyata.
Spiny

I also think so, but i never thought of in the way of "either visualise the element or have a little bit in front of you...", but maybe that is a esoteric approach. One important thing might be that the elements stand for attributes and lesser for material components. *smile*

So regarding the water element for example one needs to observe or better recognize the attribute of cohesion or bounding (holding force). I am not sure if this words for the attribute of the waterelement meet the point very well.

[Spiny le Norman]

I also think so, but i never thought of in the way of "either visualise the element or have a little bit in front of you...", but maybe that is a esoteric approach. One important thing might be that the elements stand for attributes and lesser for material components. *smile*

Yes, technically the elements are describing our experience of solidity, movement, heat/light, fluidity, space and consciousness.  Though I think the practice does work if you externalise onto stuff "out there".

Spiny

[Hanzze]

I guess it's a good beginning, a starter and also useful at the end. Dhamma is everywhere. But to get really in "touch" with it, "seeing", I guess it was suggested to look inward. Not that it would be different, but there is lesser danger to get attached through sensuality of all its kinds. And "visualise the element" is just food for the biggest mouth. *smile*

A maybe useful general explaining: dhātu and dhātu-vavatthāna (analysis or determining of the 4 elements)

In a condensed form this exercise is handed down in D.22 and M.10 (s. satipatthāna), but in detail explained in M.28, 62, 140

The simile of the butcher in M.10 ("Just, o monks, as a skilled butcher or butcher's apprentice, after having slaughtered a cow and divided it into separate portions, should sit down at the junction of four highroads; just so does the disciple contemplate this body with regard to the elements") is thus explained in Vis.M. XI....