Author Topic: Book recommendations on mindfulness  (Read 1549 times)

Offline Arkena

  • Member
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2017, 06:08:51 am »
Let us agree that we will never agree lol

Quote
It would be like resonating with the christian religious view of a soul but practicing buddhist mindfulness which is based on the view of anatta.


Combining these two views leads to a great great insight on our psychology as human beings...seeing past the apparent conflict in views...understanding what arrises from the false self...from the ego...combining the view of non self and understanding passages like this from the tao te Ching:

Thus, the constant void enables one to observe the true essence.

Thus, although the saint puts himself last, finds himself in the lead.
Although he is not self-concerned, finds himself accomplished.
It is because he is not focused on self-interests and hence can fulfill his true nature.
(Self interests refers to interests arising from the false self...leaving only the saints true nature to shine through...his soul or buddha nature)

Its important to ackowledge understanding from the intellect without evidence leads nowhere, self observation of our inner nature reveals the only truth! I am not claiming im right just stating that self observation is very valuable.

A mahayana teaching...there is a non self and a true buddha self:
http://www.holisticshop.co.uk/articles/mahaparinirvana-sutra-buddha

At the intellectual level, we could debate for eternity because it is based on views and not evidence.
On the experiential level, of self observation... truths are revealed the intellect cannot perceive.

Anyway i will give up now in convincing you of my view lol :)

Peace  :pray:

« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 06:12:48 am by Arkena »

Offline Arkena

  • Member
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2017, 10:02:15 am »
I think one problem you are experiencing Ground is you are using Aristotelianism logic to understand "four corners" logical statements and describing them as irationalist because they do not conform to your method of logic.

Ie you are trying to use Aristotelianism logic that says something is either true or false and two contradicting statements cannot be both true or both false...

You likely do not know you are using logic from this school of thought as it is all we are taught as the de facto method of logic.

https://aeon.co/essays/the-logic-of-buddhist-philosophy-goes-beyond-simple-truth

The biggest western example of four corners logic is Schrödinger's cat which is used to describe states in quantum physics i believe...when a situation that is unknown can be described in multiple states as true and false and both answers can be said to be both true or both false...

Two seemingly contradicting statements can be seem as both true when seen from the right perspective...
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 10:06:56 am by Arkena »

Offline The Artis Magistra

  • Member
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2017, 12:01:13 pm »
No Ground you dont understand how following non consistent views can help widen your perspective when pursued correctly...if  pursued incorrectly they lead to misunderstanding...this is certainly not a practice for beginners who are just learning one view/model...This is why modern psychologists learn different psychological models as they emphasise and understand things differently and some views may be better to understand certain situations. Why do you think psychologists and scientists learn different theories of the same topic if all this led to was confusion?

Eckhart tolle's teachings on the now has had tremendous implications for my understanding of mindfulness and being...again that is my experience...you are relying on a theory as to how different views interact when pursued by one person.

and as usual you like to point out where people are wrong because they dont subscribe to your views. Perhaps expressing your view without judging others as wrong/not understanding would lead to more harmony...besides...you cannot tell someone they they are wrong...you can only help them realise it for themselves...otherwise it just becomes a butting of heads.

Lets find harmony in this.  :pray:

See? Arkena! Look how a person saying even wrong things and arguing, can lead to good and beautiful things being said, that is the best purpose for such, the best use of such, and you did it here! Great post and great job!

Let me tell you all! Let me tell you with my big bad authority! That you all never need to make a choice! Everything is opened, all the doors are wide opened! What doors are closed, are closed to their own detriment, because it is you who will give life to anything and everything when you walk in it! When you encompass it! So do not deprive things of life!

You can be a Buddhist, a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, just like you can speak French, Polish, and Japanese! These are languages, these are tools, they all work to communicate things, to communicate the truth, to be used advantageously, moreover to help one another! To help the world and whatever is in it!

Hey! What do you think the purpose was of every religion saying the same exact thing, help people, do good, be good, spread good, say good, turn bad into good, turn every opportunity you can into good, fight evil, defeat evil, oppose wrong, use what is given, be grateful, you have everything you have at your disposal, be noble with it!

It was to communicate the Truth, the One Truth, that we are here to be Great, to be Beautiful, to Beautify our Body which Encompasses Everything.

Don't give in to people spreading oppressive limitations, who try to box you and trap you in lies, these are imitators of an evil force, a force that exists also for a purpose, and that purpose is resistance like resistance training, so that we grow stronger, and it in turn also will take on the next level, requiring us to get even stronger, smarter, sharper, faster, better, more beautiful, forever, to Infinity and Beyond!

Offline The Artis Magistra

  • Member
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2017, 12:03:08 pm »
Think of all the beautiful things that wouldn't be said if we listened to the "SHUT UP!" behind what others say to us!

Get your Duck Feathers On and Keep on Quacking!

Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2139
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2017, 01:05:04 pm »
...
On the experiential level, of self observation... truths are revealed the intellect cannot perceive.
Well, it seems you're just cultivating another of those escapist irrational views.  :teehee:

I think one problem you are experiencing Ground...
What problem are you talking about? There is no problem on my side, so where does the problem arise?  :wink1:
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 01:09:37 pm by ground »

Offline The Artis Magistra

  • Member
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2017, 02:22:43 pm »
To Agree that we will Never Agree is to Agree to Universal Defeat. No. Keep Trying! Do not become exhausted! Continue!

Explain, find new strategies, say more, say it in other ways, repeat it in the same ways. The Elephant is gentle, the Elephant is harsh, the Elephant shakes the forest or walks through it almost silently except the vibrations sent forth with every heavy step.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT AGREEING TO DISAGREEMENT IS!?

It is saying to a poor person or a sick person "no medicine for you then", it is utterly cruel.

If you know better, give better! If you know right, give right! Do not for fear of trouble, conflict, disagreement, tears, sad faces, refrain from telling the truth and spreading good and medicating the sick and giving wealth to the poor!

So if someone disagrees with me, I don't say ok! I say "Help me if I'm wrong, I'll keep trying to help you too!" Don't give up!

When there is right, it may become clear as we keep sweeping and swiping!

We scuffle, and underneath our feet it digs and digs until we reach the treasures of the Earth, or water!

Offline Arkena

  • Member
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2017, 02:34:25 pm »
I just dont think some people are ready to hear Artis Magistra and it becomes a game for the ego.

Ground i will have to remember you are not above mocking others...

Dont feed the trolls lol


Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2139
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2017, 02:38:30 pm »
Ground i will have to remember you are not above mocking others...
Well, actually I am, because I did no mock others.  :fu:

Offline derekf208

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2017, 03:59:51 pm »
Whelp...so much for my assumptions that buddhist internet forums would always stay on topic and never derail into arguments.  :wink1:

Offline The Artis Magistra

  • Member
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2017, 04:18:44 pm »
Whelp...so much for my assumptions that buddhist internet forums would always stay on topic and never derail into arguments.  :wink1:

That was a pretty weird assumption. Hasn't anyone told you? Buddhists are humans too. That is why they are so squishy and soft and warm, and hard underneath when you reach the bones, and why they cry out.

Your assumption was an extremely dangerous one. You might have with that assumption thought Buddhists were cars or something, and jumped onto their backs and gone "Vroom Vroom" as they crawl around for you, and its an easy mistake to make, because Buddhists, like cars, can have very shiny surfaces, but they certainly are humans.

Now if you want a real Buddhist, come a little closer, yes closer, no, too close, gross, limits man, ok.

I am the The Truest and Greatest Buddhist on this Website. That is because Invisible Buddhists don't count as Buddhists at all.

So if you want to hear about Buddhism, I'm your best bet. If you want to hear about Pali Canon quotes, VisuddhiRaptor is a veritable computer (on wheels?) of the Pali Canon quotes.

If you want to hear Buddhist history, you have IdleChater, who can also provide links at times.

If you want to hear from a good heart, you have Arkena.

If you want to hear from a broken heart, Rahul.

If you want to hear boring sh*t, you can always stare at the ground.

We're the A team, where A stands for Arahant, and the B team where B stands for Buttfaces.

So please, I DEMAND YOU TO ASK WHATEVER YOU WANT OR SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT ABOUT BUDDHISM, MAKE THREADS, ENGAGE WITH THE GREATEST BUDDHIST EVER AND THESE OTHER INFERIORS AND LETS GET THIS PARTY STARTED!

Don't be shy! This is the internet! We're human beings! We're also more than human beings, VisuddhiRaptor is a cyborg for example, and I'm a "Divine" or something, allegedly, allegedly!

Come on, I dare you, ask and say anything about Buddhism, start a dialogue, or talk about other things in relation to Buddhism though.

Yes, you'll get lots of responses, arguments, troubles possibly, annoying flies all trying to buzz around you and sit on you, and no I'm not saying you're a pile of dung, I'm saying your delicious food, and if left sitting out, the flies will try to lay eggs in you, so before they do, EAT IT.

That is, Swallow Your Ego, Eat Yo Self, and get on with it! You've joined! Time to have some fun! Speak freely while you can, say wonderful things while you can! Ask great thought provoking questions!

Offline derekf208

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2017, 06:12:25 pm »
I was just joking. :)  That's why there's the "whelp", and the little wink emoticon guy.  I was having fun with the stereotype that buddhist are clean, organized and value simplicity.  I know better than to actually believe that buddhist are always like that, and I also figured that we all collectively know better than that too.  So I tried to be funny with it.  I missed the mark.  But I also should have known better that the receiver doesn't always interpret the meaning of the message based on the intent of the messenger.  Plus, I attempted my humor on a risky medium(Internet/social media) where this kind of thing always happens.  However, I've had some seriously great laughs with people on other message boards, so I chose to take the risk. 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 06:20:30 pm by derekf208 »

Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2139
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2017, 10:53:39 pm »
DO YOU KNOW WHAT AGREEING TO DISAGREEMENT IS!?
Disagreement is when different linguistic expressions are used and the parties involved are not willing to use the expressions the other party uses.
There is rarely disagreement about linguistic expressions to be used for impressions of the 5 senses. E.g. when a buddhist and a muslim see a car they usually don't disagree that 'car' is the appropriate linguistic expression to be used as designator. Why? Because both can directly perceive the same object.
However when it comes to objects that can only be directly perceived by each party individually, like e.g. feelings or emotions/passions, then disagreement may arise quite often. Why? Because one party can't directly perceive the feelings or emotions/passions of the other party.
And when it comes to objects that cannot be directly perceived by anybody at any place at any time because these objects are inexistents and mere objects of belief, like e.g. God or re-birth, then disagreement is close to certain.

Offline The Artis Magistra

  • Member
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2017, 12:13:25 am »
I was just joking. :)  That's why there's the "whelp", and the little wink emoticon guy.  I was having fun with the stereotype that buddhist are clean, organized and value simplicity.  I know better than to actually believe that buddhist are always like that, and I also figured that we all collectively know better than that too.  So I tried to be funny with it.  I missed the mark.  But I also should have known better that the receiver doesn't always interpret the meaning of the message based on the intent of the messenger.  Plus, I attempted my humor on a risky medium(Internet/social media) where this kind of thing always happens.  However, I've had some seriously great laughs with people on other message boards, so I chose to take the risk.

I took what you wrote as a joke and ended up writing something I enjoyed as a response so thank you, had you not done it, I would not have been inspired to write exactly what I did! Furthermore, I think Buddhists should be those great people we hope for, but I can't even get these people to call themselves Buddhists, they just call me "Not Buddhist", I guess they want me to be like them?

Offline Arkena

  • Member
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2017, 05:47:03 pm »
No Ground you dont understand how following non consistent views can help widen your perspective when pursued correctly...if  pursued incorrectly they lead to misunderstanding...
So you say that e.g. following both, the view 'phenomena are impermanent' and the view 'trees are permanent',  'widens your perspective' because you are following inconsistent views.  :lmfao:

this is certainly not a practice for beginners who are just learning one view/model...
No this certainly is a practice for irrationalists.  :teehee:

This is why modern psychologists learn different psychological models as they emphasise and understand things differently and some views may be better to understand certain situations. Why do you think psychologists and scientists learn different theories of the same topic if all this led to was confusion?
you are confusing 'inconsistency of views' with 'relative applicability of views depending on context'. When different views are applicable in different contexts then the views are not necessarily inconsistent. They are inconsistent only if they rely on contradictory general premises, i.e. premises independent of contexts.


Eckhart tolle's teachings on the now has had tremendous implications for my understanding of mindfulness and being...again that is my experience...you are relying on a theory as to how different views interact when pursued by one person.
Eckhart tolle's teachings is one system of thought. Since I do not know his system I can't say whether it is consistent or not. Provided it is consistent there are certainly other views of other people that are not consistent with respect to his system. And these views may be used as a basis for mindfulness which is inconsistent with his system of thought and practicing thus would be nonsense and block any progress.
It would be like resonating with the christian religious view of a soul but practicing buddhist mindfulness which is based on the view of anatta.

and as usual you like to point out where people are wrong because they dont subscribe to your views.
No it is not about my view because I know that everybody knows better than everybody else. But if people's views and practices are inconsistent they will never validly know for themselves but they will be bound to believe and doubt. That is why I am pointing out errors. I do not care what view people finally hold. And I do not care whether they prefer to believe and doubt over validly knowing. But if views are expressed in this forum then it may happen that I will respond and if I respond I will respond authentically.

Perhaps expressing your view without judging others as wrong/not understanding would lead to more harmony...besides...you cannot tell someone they they are wrong...you can only help them realise it for themselves...otherwise it just becomes a butting of heads.
It is not about persons, but it is about views. Harmony is fine but harmony that supports error is a poison.

Ground you clearly are moking my views, re stating my views then laughing at the end IS mocking.
I dont know why you think denying it is going to work, perhaps you think your some wise sage who would never do such a thing...your not, your a flawed human like all of us.

The only poison I see is your intollerance for other peoples views when they dont conform to your narrow interpretation of Buddhism and what is correct. Who are you that thinks he can stand there and dictate what he thinks are errors? Do you think your a fountain from which only truth flows that you can stand there dictating what is truth? No one has come to this forum for your oppinions but to exchange ideas...not to see if their views measure up to your standards.

You cant even understand the common practice of teaching conflicting views in higher education and how this encourages the individual to think...if you cannot understand a practice that is widespread in every higher education place of learning in the world then maybe you should go and get a higher education so you can figure it out rather than clinging to your sectarian approach to Buddhism.

Your approach to Buddhism is mindless as it doesnt encourage the individual to think about conflicting views and relies on exposure to a single source to make them an educated parrot who will only know one schools teachings.

To point out inconsistencies in my practice you would first of all have to understand the limitations of the minds ability to perceive the inner world and how mindfulness and the being mode are your eyes and ears of the inner world. You would have to understand that belief in the absence of evidence is just that a belief ...no matter how many thousands of years of scholars have argued it. Without evidence it means nothing. To realise this...your whole world would crumble as you realise there are many things like the teaching of no self you take as truth which cant be substantiated through concrete evidence.

Or maybe cling to your ignorance and tell me how views you dont understand are inconsistent...you know your usual Ego led Bs that makes you feel like youve said something important when your just as ignorant as most people in the world.

I wont bother reading your posts again...your a huge troll and a blight on the free exchange of ideas on this forum.


Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2139
    • View Profile
Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2017, 08:36:52 pm »
No Ground you dont understand how following non consistent views can help widen your perspective when pursued correctly...if  pursued incorrectly they lead to misunderstanding...
So you say that e.g. following both, the view 'phenomena are impermanent' and the view 'trees are permanent',  'widens your perspective' because you are following inconsistent views.  :lmfao:

this is certainly not a practice for beginners who are just learning one view/model...
No this certainly is a practice for irrationalists.  :teehee:

This is why modern psychologists learn different psychological models as they emphasise and understand things differently and some views may be better to understand certain situations. Why do you think psychologists and scientists learn different theories of the same topic if all this led to was confusion?
you are confusing 'inconsistency of views' with 'relative applicability of views depending on context'. When different views are applicable in different contexts then the views are not necessarily inconsistent. They are inconsistent only if they rely on contradictory general premises, i.e. premises independent of contexts.


Eckhart tolle's teachings on the now has had tremendous implications for my understanding of mindfulness and being...again that is my experience...you are relying on a theory as to how different views interact when pursued by one person.
Eckhart tolle's teachings is one system of thought. Since I do not know his system I can't say whether it is consistent or not. Provided it is consistent there are certainly other views of other people that are not consistent with respect to his system. And these views may be used as a basis for mindfulness which is inconsistent with his system of thought and practicing thus would be nonsense and block any progress.
It would be like resonating with the christian religious view of a soul but practicing buddhist mindfulness which is based on the view of anatta.

and as usual you like to point out where people are wrong because they dont subscribe to your views.
No it is not about my view because I know that everybody knows better than everybody else. But if people's views and practices are inconsistent they will never validly know for themselves but they will be bound to believe and doubt. That is why I am pointing out errors. I do not care what view people finally hold. And I do not care whether they prefer to believe and doubt over validly knowing. But if views are expressed in this forum then it may happen that I will respond and if I respond I will respond authentically.

Perhaps expressing your view without judging others as wrong/not understanding would lead to more harmony...besides...you cannot tell someone they they are wrong...you can only help them realise it for themselves...otherwise it just becomes a butting of heads.
It is not about persons, but it is about views. Harmony is fine but harmony that supports error is a poison.

Ground you clearly are moking my views, re stating my views then laughing at the end IS mocking.
I dont know why you think denying it is going to work, perhaps you think your some wise sage who would never do such a thing...your not, your a flawed human like all of us.
Of course  I am mocking your views but I am not mocking others which was what you asserted.  :fu:

The only poison I see is your intollerance for other peoples views when they dont conform to your narrow interpretation of Buddhism and what is correct. Who are you that thinks he can stand there and dictate what he thinks are errors? Do you think your a fountain from which only truth flows that you can stand there dictating what is truth? No one has come to this forum for your oppinions but to exchange ideas...not to see if their views measure up to your standards.
you are completely missing the point I made. Neither do I say 'buddhism is this' or 'buddhism is that', nor do I try to persuade people to change their views. I have merely pointed out the errors in your thinking.

...rather than clinging to your sectarian approach to Buddhism.
:lmfao:

To point out inconsistencies in my practice ...
I have pointed out the errors in your thinking that you have expressed here in this thread with your words. Not more, not less.

I wont bother reading your posts again...your a huge troll and a blight on the free exchange of ideas on this forum.
See that is the difference: while I am referring to your view and your thinking expressed with words you are aiming at the person.
But I am strongly advocating freedom of speech. So you are free to say whatever you like as you are free to read or to ignore as it pleases you.  :fu:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 08:41:11 pm by ground »

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal