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A Mosaic of Traditions - One Virtual Sangha => Meditation and Self-Reflection Practices => Topic started by: Arkena on July 20, 2017, 10:57:33 pm

Title: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: Arkena on July 20, 2017, 10:57:33 pm
So i am not just a beginner in mindfulness , i realise the following to give you an idea of where i am at in order to recommend appropriate books for my level

I realise:

Emptiness...

A good grasp of non self...this is mainly via eckhart tolle's writings...

How mind is part of the non self but that as part of "me" it must be accepted and looked on kindfully or else inner conflict and non harmony would arise...

Deep non judgmental acceptance of all aspects of "myself" is essential for inner harmony and peace

Also i am not necessarily a buddhist but follow the buddha as well as eckhart tolle, mooji etc, i believe there are many masters. So secular books not connected with buddhism would interest me as well.

So what mindfulness books/other meditation techniques would you recommend to deepen and help me learn?

As a side note i dont think western books on mindfulness penetrate deeply enough into understanding harmony with the non self and dont seem to realise that this is at the core of mindfulness and being. Id like to be proved wrong and ignorant lol

 :pray:
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: ground on July 20, 2017, 11:41:44 pm
you should care for consistency. If eckhart tolle resonates with you you should see what he says about mindfulness. your view and your practises should be consistent.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 21, 2017, 01:09:13 am
Why, ground? Just curious.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: VisuddhiRaptor on July 21, 2017, 01:29:04 am
Emptiness...A good grasp of non self...Deep non judgmental acceptance... is essential for inner harmony and peace

These things written above are 'wisdom' or 'right view' rather than 'mindfulness'.

'Mindfulness' means 'to remember' or 'to bring to & keep in mind'. There are many wisdoms that can be brought to mind.

'Mindfulness' is 'to remember' to not grasp things as self & 'to remember' to not be judgmental.

A clear book on mindfulness is MN 117:

Quote
One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong resolve & to enter & remain in right resolve: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong speech & to enter & remain in right speech: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong action & to enter & remain in right action: This is one's right mindfulness.

One is mindful to abandon wrong livelihood & to enter & remain in right livelihood: This is one's right mindfulness.

MN 117  [url]http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.117.than.html[/url] ([url]http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.117.than.html[/url])


 :namaste:
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 21, 2017, 02:07:28 am
So i am not just a beginner in mindfulness , i realise the following to give you an idea of where i am at in order to recommend appropriate books for my level

I realise:

Emptiness...

A good grasp of non self...this is mainly via eckhart tolle's writings...

How mind is part of the non self but that as part of "me" it must be accepted and looked on kindfully or else inner conflict and non harmony would arise...

Deep non judgmental acceptance of all aspects of "myself" is essential for inner harmony and peace

Also i am not necessarily a buddhist but follow the buddha as well as eckhart tolle, mooji etc, i believe there are many masters. So secular books not connected with buddhism would interest me as well.

So what mindfulness books/other meditation techniques would you recommend to deepen and help me learn?

As a side note i dont think western books on mindfulness penetrate deeply enough into understanding harmony with the non self and dont seem to realise that this is at the core of mindfulness and being. Id like to be proved wrong and ignorant lol

 :pray:

Can you explain to me, casually, as I do not mean to question this idea with any sort of hostility but I am mainly curious about how people tend to think or what they inagine, what you have in mind when you say "Not Necessarily a Buddhist". What in your idea is a Buddhist and not a Buddhist and why are you in your view excluded from being a Buddhist? How do you differ from what you imagine a Buddhist is exclusively? The reason I am asking this everywhere is to try to figure out ways or strategies to break down what might be inhibiting people from Buddhismor considering themselves Buddhist or keeping them from the Dharma by hearing their ideas of exclusion or what makes them hesitate or second guess it.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: Arkena on July 21, 2017, 02:49:24 am
Quote
Can you explain to me, casually, as I do not mean to question this idea with any sort of hostility but I am mainly curious about how people tend to think or what they inagine, what you have in mind when you say "Not Necessarily a Buddhist". What in your idea is a Buddhist and not a Buddhist and why are you in your view excluded from being a Buddhist? How do you differ from what you imagine a Buddhist is exclusively? The reason I am asking this everywhere is to try to figure out ways or strategies to break down what might be inhibiting people from Buddhismor considering themselves Buddhist or keeping them from the Dharma by hearing their ideas of exclusion or what makes them hesitate or second guess it.

There are two reasons I would not call myself a buddhist...

1) I find it is too restrictive a label, if it was a label that implied I am open to learn the wisdom of the universe wherever It is to be found eg: Eckhart tolle, a passage of the Tao Te ching etc I would be a Buddhist. I find the term Buddhist implies I exclusively follow the wisdom of the buddha and look to him as the sole source of great wisdom, it is just too restrictive a title for me. I find not taking the label Buddhist allows me to disagree with certain teachings of buddhism and to pick ones I feel resonate more with the truth. eg: the concept of having a soul/true self (christian teaching) which many buddhists disagree with. So in summary I feel calling myself a follower of Buddha rather than a Buddhist is a question of freedom to choose what teachings resonate with me. Althought for practical purposes I am what most people would call a Buddhist but woulld not use that term myself.

2)growing up as a catholic I am still undoing there mindless conditioning where religion requires faith and not intelligence...intelligence can help you perceive the truth...faith only perceives whatever you've been told, so I find whenever I use a religious title it brings out this past conditioning in me, which i am working on undoing.

Can we get back to a book recommendation now LOL  ;D
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 21, 2017, 02:59:37 am
Great answer. So Buddhism appearing overly restrictive and fundamentalist and exclusive has caused you to avoid the title.

I consider myself Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim, Taoist, etc, freely. I guess what I must be overall is a liar, since many would say a Buddhist can not be a Catholic or a Muslim or a Taoist and each can not be like the other or say the same things. So instead of going to heaven for being good by all standards, I go to hell in each for doing too many impossible things.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 21, 2017, 03:02:05 am
I bring this up so that you might be happier, but if you don't want to be everything, you can be whatever you like best. I just happen to like being baffling by promoting unity and benevolence.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: ground on July 21, 2017, 03:47:29 am
...
Can we get back to a book recommendation now LOL  ;D
Obviously you don't understand. Every book about mindfulness is necessarily one from the perspective of a specific basic system of view. It simply makes no sense to combine Eckhart tolle's view with e.g. buddhist mindfulness. Stick to Eckhart tolle's mindfulness if he teaches one and if he teaches none then forget mindfulness practice.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: Solodris on July 21, 2017, 04:44:37 am
Althought for practical purposes I am what most people would call a Buddhist but woulld not use that term myself.

Perhaps you would call yourself a practicing Buddhist then?

Can we get back to a book recommendation now LOL  ;D

It seems, in order to touch mindfulness, one must first understand meditation, when meditation have been established in the mind, when meditation have been understood, then one can move on to practice mindfulness.

I might recommend the following books:

How to Meditate - Kathleen McDonald
Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind - Shunryu Suzuki
Always Present - Jigme Phuntsok
You Are Here - Thich Nhat Hanh

They should be considered as a foundation of remembrance, that would translate into mindfulness.

If anyone has anything to add, feel free to do so.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: Arkena on July 21, 2017, 06:28:38 am
...
Can we get back to a book recommendation now LOL  ;D
Obviously you don't understand. Every book about mindfulness is necessarily one from the perspective of a specific basic system of view. It simply makes no sense to combine Eckhart tolle's view with e.g. buddhist mindfulness. Stick to Eckhart tolle's mindfulness if he teaches one and if he teaches none then forget mindfulness practice.

This view sums up why I would not bear a restrictive label that says i only follow one teacher. The attitude found theirin speaks for itself. It is a sect like view that says you can only follow one system at a time as reconcilling them is impossible/too hard/non constructive...in the pursuit of the truth. It makes assumptions not based on experience or on a failure to find compatible teachings from different sources.

I should learn to take comments less personally i think that is something we can agree on lol  :pray:
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 21, 2017, 09:57:54 am
...
Can we get back to a book recommendation now LOL  ;D
Obviously you don't understand. Every book about mindfulness is necessarily one from the perspective of a specific basic system of view. It simply makes no sense to combine Eckhart tolle's view with e.g. buddhist mindfulness. Stick to Eckhart tolle's mindfulness if he teaches one and if he teaches none then forget mindfulness practice.

This view sums up why I would not bear a restrictive label that says i only follow one teacher. The attitude found theirin speaks for itself. It is a sect like view that says you can only follow one system at a time as reconcilling them is impossible/too hard/non constructive...in the pursuit of the truth. It makes assumptions not based on experience or on a failure to find compatible teachings from different sources.

I should learn to take comments less personally i think that is something we can agree on lol  :pray:

No offense intended to anyone, but you shouldn't let "*ssholes" dictate your life based on their "farts".

Seriously, you'll be much happier when you come to terms with these control-freaks not even being Buddhist in the first place.

They will always pop up, its their job, its built into them to bark like dogs at everyone who approaches anything.

Literally, you can go to practically any place and these same "*ssholes" will show up making their loud farts, that is, blowing hot air out of their one orifice, since they haven't learned to use any other. Of course it stinks, of course it creates heat, it can even start a fire if someone lights a match.

I invite you to Everything. Its not a fun life to just be huddled in a corner because dogs have been allowed to run free. You're the human being, this is your life, it is not the dogs life, the dogs nature is to bark, its just how they communicate.

What the dogs are trying to say, these "*ssholes" or anuses, whatever you prefer, are trying to say to you, is that they love you and want you to be their master.

They are not saying they want to be free, they are not saying they want you to go away (they are very stupid, I mean who has heard of an (*sshole with a brain?), they are trying to say, in their own mentally deficient way, that they want to love you and submit to you and be your slave. Now of course, we don't want to enslave these slavish people, so really its our rejection that is disappointing them so much and making them feel bad, because their appeal is heartfelt "master, master, own me, tell me what is right" is the translation of their sounds. Our answer is the sagely "no, no, but go (^#$(# yourselves!". We are so incredibly rude to them.

So what we should probably do in response to these gross things, is be merciful, but certainly not to misunderstand them. All they want is someone to control every waking move of their life, that is what they are begging for, and that is the only thing that will satisfy them, but we can't grant them that, so they act out of control.

So don't let a barking dog keep you out of the temple. The barking dogs are everywhere. You can be a Buddhist, you can be all those things, you can be the things that are most scary too, you can be a Muslim, a Jew, a Nazi. The good sort of Nazi. There are lots of Nazi dogs, lots of Nazi barkers, they don't own Nazism. I am using extreme examples and saying extreme things for a very particular reason.

So I invite you to Everything. I invite you to ALL HUMAN WORK, ALL HUMAN HISTORY, the Universal, the Cosmic, and take from this garden of delights every good fruit, but DO NOT EAT FROM ONE TREE. Eat from ALL the TREES except the "very specific tree over there".

I am a Buddhist. I think you are too. You and I are other things as well. Doesn't it make you feel nice to be things? Doesn't it make you feel nice to realize dogs and *ssholes are just making sounds? They really would like to be like us, but they can't be, they are not like you or me. The "very specific tree" is covered in their territorial piss.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: philboyd on July 21, 2017, 05:06:13 pm
Minding Closely,  The Four Applications Of Mindfulness -
B. Alan Wallace
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: ground on July 21, 2017, 11:04:31 pm
...
Can we get back to a book recommendation now LOL  ;D
Obviously you don't understand. Every book about mindfulness is necessarily one from the perspective of a specific basic system of view. It simply makes no sense to combine Eckhart tolle's view with e.g. buddhist mindfulness. Stick to Eckhart tolle's mindfulness if he teaches one and if he teaches none then forget mindfulness practice.

This view sums up why I would not bear a restrictive label that says i only follow one teacher. The attitude found theirin speaks for itself. It is a sect like view that says you can only follow one system at a time as reconcilling them is impossible/too hard/non constructive...in the pursuit of the truth. It makes assumptions not based on experience or on a failure to find compatible teachings from different sources.

I should learn to take comments less personally i think that is something we can agree on lol  :pray:
Obviously you still don't understand. It is not about following a teacher or a sect but it is about consistency of view and practice.
If e.g. someone teaches that there is no suffering and this view resonates with you it doesn't make sense to practice being mindful of suffering.
I do not know what Eckhart tolle's view is and I am not interested in views of such self-proclaimed 'enlightened' ones but there is a diversity of mindfulnesses depending on the diversity of objects one can be mindful of.
What is it that you want to be mindful of? If you know then why do you need a book? Just be mindful of what you want to be mindful of.

If you are axious about holding a view because you are anxious about it being someone else's view which may seduce you to sectarianism then just be mindful of views arising in your mind and as soon as any view arises drop it. This then is mindfulness of 'no view'.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: Arkena on July 22, 2017, 04:39:19 am
No Ground you dont understand how following non consistent views can help widen your perspective when pursued correctly...if  pursued incorrectly they lead to misunderstanding...this is certainly not a practice for beginners who are just learning one view/model...This is why modern psychologists learn different psychological models as they emphasise and understand things differently and some views may be better to understand certain situations. Why do you think psychologists and scientists learn different theories of the same topic if all this led to was confusion?

Eckhart tolle's teachings on the now has had tremendous implications for my understanding of mindfulness and being...again that is my experience...you are relying on a theory as to how different views interact when pursued by one person.

and as usual you like to point out where people are wrong because they dont subscribe to your views. Perhaps expressing your view without judging others as wrong/not understanding would lead to more harmony...besides...you cannot tell someone they they are wrong...you can only help them realise it for themselves...otherwise it just becomes a butting of heads.

Lets find harmony in this.  :pray:
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: ground on July 22, 2017, 05:38:03 am
No Ground you dont understand how following non consistent views can help widen your perspective when pursued correctly...if  pursued incorrectly they lead to misunderstanding...
So you say that e.g. following both, the view 'phenomena are impermanent' and the view 'trees are permanent',  'widens your perspective' because you are following inconsistent views.  :lmfao:

this is certainly not a practice for beginners who are just learning one view/model...
No this certainly is a practice for irrationalists.  :teehee:

This is why modern psychologists learn different psychological models as they emphasise and understand things differently and some views may be better to understand certain situations. Why do you think psychologists and scientists learn different theories of the same topic if all this led to was confusion?
you are confusing 'inconsistency of views' with 'relative applicability of views depending on context'. When different views are applicable in different contexts then the views are not necessarily inconsistent. They are inconsistent only if they rely on contradictory general premises, i.e. premises independent of contexts.


Eckhart tolle's teachings on the now has had tremendous implications for my understanding of mindfulness and being...again that is my experience...you are relying on a theory as to how different views interact when pursued by one person.
Eckhart tolle's teachings is one system of thought. Since I do not know his system I can't say whether it is consistent or not. Provided it is consistent there are certainly other views of other people that are not consistent with respect to his system. And these views may be used as a basis for mindfulness which is inconsistent with his system of thought and practicing thus would be nonsense and block any progress.
It would be like resonating with the christian religious view of a soul but practicing buddhist mindfulness which is based on the view of anatta.

and as usual you like to point out where people are wrong because they dont subscribe to your views.
No it is not about my view because I know that everybody knows better than everybody else. But if people's views and practices are inconsistent they will never validly know for themselves but they will be bound to believe and doubt. That is why I am pointing out errors. I do not care what view people finally hold. And I do not care whether they prefer to believe and doubt over validly knowing. But if views are expressed in this forum then it may happen that I will respond and if I respond I will respond authentically.

Perhaps expressing your view without judging others as wrong/not understanding would lead to more harmony...besides...you cannot tell someone they they are wrong...you can only help them realise it for themselves...otherwise it just becomes a butting of heads.
It is not about persons, but it is about views. Harmony is fine but harmony that supports error is a poison.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: Arkena on July 22, 2017, 06:08:51 am
Let us agree that we will never agree lol

Quote
It would be like resonating with the christian religious view of a soul but practicing buddhist mindfulness which is based on the view of anatta.


Combining these two views leads to a great great insight on our psychology as human beings...seeing past the apparent conflict in views...understanding what arrises from the false self...from the ego...combining the view of non self and understanding passages like this from the tao te Ching:

Thus, the constant void enables one to observe the true essence.

Thus, although the saint puts himself last, finds himself in the lead.
Although he is not self-concerned, finds himself accomplished.
It is because he is not focused on self-interests and hence can fulfill his true nature.
(Self interests refers to interests arising from the false self...leaving only the saints true nature to shine through...his soul or buddha nature)

Its important to ackowledge understanding from the intellect without evidence leads nowhere, self observation of our inner nature reveals the only truth! I am not claiming im right just stating that self observation is very valuable.

A mahayana teaching...there is a non self and a true buddha self:
http://www.holisticshop.co.uk/articles/mahaparinirvana-sutra-buddha (http://www.holisticshop.co.uk/articles/mahaparinirvana-sutra-buddha)

At the intellectual level, we could debate for eternity because it is based on views and not evidence.
On the experiential level, of self observation... truths are revealed the intellect cannot perceive.

Anyway i will give up now in convincing you of my view lol :)

Peace  :pray:

Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: Arkena on July 22, 2017, 10:02:15 am
I think one problem you are experiencing Ground is you are using Aristotelianism logic to understand "four corners" logical statements and describing them as irationalist because they do not conform to your method of logic.

Ie you are trying to use Aristotelianism logic that says something is either true or false and two contradicting statements cannot be both true or both false...

You likely do not know you are using logic from this school of thought as it is all we are taught as the de facto method of logic.

https://aeon.co/essays/the-logic-of-buddhist-philosophy-goes-beyond-simple-truth

The biggest western example of four corners logic is Schrödinger's cat which is used to describe states in quantum physics i believe...when a situation that is unknown can be described in multiple states as true and false and both answers can be said to be both true or both false...

Two seemingly contradicting statements can be seem as both true when seen from the right perspective...
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 22, 2017, 12:01:13 pm
No Ground you dont understand how following non consistent views can help widen your perspective when pursued correctly...if  pursued incorrectly they lead to misunderstanding...this is certainly not a practice for beginners who are just learning one view/model...This is why modern psychologists learn different psychological models as they emphasise and understand things differently and some views may be better to understand certain situations. Why do you think psychologists and scientists learn different theories of the same topic if all this led to was confusion?

Eckhart tolle's teachings on the now has had tremendous implications for my understanding of mindfulness and being...again that is my experience...you are relying on a theory as to how different views interact when pursued by one person.

and as usual you like to point out where people are wrong because they dont subscribe to your views. Perhaps expressing your view without judging others as wrong/not understanding would lead to more harmony...besides...you cannot tell someone they they are wrong...you can only help them realise it for themselves...otherwise it just becomes a butting of heads.

Lets find harmony in this.  :pray:

See? Arkena! Look how a person saying even wrong things and arguing, can lead to good and beautiful things being said, that is the best purpose for such, the best use of such, and you did it here! Great post and great job!

Let me tell you all! Let me tell you with my big bad authority! That you all never need to make a choice! Everything is opened, all the doors are wide opened! What doors are closed, are closed to their own detriment, because it is you who will give life to anything and everything when you walk in it! When you encompass it! So do not deprive things of life!

You can be a Buddhist, a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, just like you can speak French, Polish, and Japanese! These are languages, these are tools, they all work to communicate things, to communicate the truth, to be used advantageously, moreover to help one another! To help the world and whatever is in it!

Hey! What do you think the purpose was of every religion saying the same exact thing, help people, do good, be good, spread good, say good, turn bad into good, turn every opportunity you can into good, fight evil, defeat evil, oppose wrong, use what is given, be grateful, you have everything you have at your disposal, be noble with it!

It was to communicate the Truth, the One Truth, that we are here to be Great, to be Beautiful, to Beautify our Body which Encompasses Everything.

Don't give in to people spreading oppressive limitations, who try to box you and trap you in lies, these are imitators of an evil force, a force that exists also for a purpose, and that purpose is resistance like resistance training, so that we grow stronger, and it in turn also will take on the next level, requiring us to get even stronger, smarter, sharper, faster, better, more beautiful, forever, to Infinity and Beyond!
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 22, 2017, 12:03:08 pm
Think of all the beautiful things that wouldn't be said if we listened to the "SHUT UP!" behind what others say to us!

Get your Duck Feathers On and Keep on Quacking!
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: ground on July 22, 2017, 01:05:04 pm
...
On the experiential level, of self observation... truths are revealed the intellect cannot perceive.
Well, it seems you're just cultivating another of those escapist irrational views.  :teehee:

I think one problem you are experiencing Ground...
What problem are you talking about? There is no problem on my side, so where does the problem arise?  :wink1:
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 22, 2017, 02:22:43 pm
To Agree that we will Never Agree is to Agree to Universal Defeat. No. Keep Trying! Do not become exhausted! Continue!

Explain, find new strategies, say more, say it in other ways, repeat it in the same ways. The Elephant is gentle, the Elephant is harsh, the Elephant shakes the forest or walks through it almost silently except the vibrations sent forth with every heavy step.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT AGREEING TO DISAGREEMENT IS!?

It is saying to a poor person or a sick person "no medicine for you then", it is utterly cruel.

If you know better, give better! If you know right, give right! Do not for fear of trouble, conflict, disagreement, tears, sad faces, refrain from telling the truth and spreading good and medicating the sick and giving wealth to the poor!

So if someone disagrees with me, I don't say ok! I say "Help me if I'm wrong, I'll keep trying to help you too!" Don't give up!

When there is right, it may become clear as we keep sweeping and swiping!

We scuffle, and underneath our feet it digs and digs until we reach the treasures of the Earth, or water!
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: Arkena on July 22, 2017, 02:34:25 pm
I just dont think some people are ready to hear Artis Magistra and it becomes a game for the ego.

Ground i will have to remember you are not above mocking others...

Dont feed the trolls lol

Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: ground on July 22, 2017, 02:38:30 pm
Ground i will have to remember you are not above mocking others...
Well, actually I am, because I did no mock others.  :fu:
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: derekf208 on July 22, 2017, 03:59:51 pm
Whelp...so much for my assumptions that buddhist internet forums would always stay on topic and never derail into arguments.  :wink1:
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 22, 2017, 04:18:44 pm
Whelp...so much for my assumptions that buddhist internet forums would always stay on topic and never derail into arguments.  :wink1:

That was a pretty weird assumption. Hasn't anyone told you? Buddhists are humans too. That is why they are so squishy and soft and warm, and hard underneath when you reach the bones, and why they cry out.

Your assumption was an extremely dangerous one. You might have with that assumption thought Buddhists were cars or something, and jumped onto their backs and gone "Vroom Vroom" as they crawl around for you, and its an easy mistake to make, because Buddhists, like cars, can have very shiny surfaces, but they certainly are humans.

Now if you want a real Buddhist, come a little closer, yes closer, no, too close, gross, limits man, ok.

I am the The Truest and Greatest Buddhist on this Website. That is because Invisible Buddhists don't count as Buddhists at all.

So if you want to hear about Buddhism, I'm your best bet. If you want to hear about Pali Canon quotes, VisuddhiRaptor is a veritable computer (on wheels?) of the Pali Canon quotes.

If you want to hear Buddhist history, you have IdleChater, who can also provide links at times.

If you want to hear from a good heart, you have Arkena.

If you want to hear from a broken heart, Rahul.

If you want to hear boring sh*t, you can always stare at the ground.

We're the A team, where A stands for Arahant, and the B team where B stands for Buttfaces.

So please, I DEMAND YOU TO ASK WHATEVER YOU WANT OR SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT ABOUT BUDDHISM, MAKE THREADS, ENGAGE WITH THE GREATEST BUDDHIST EVER AND THESE OTHER INFERIORS AND LETS GET THIS PARTY STARTED!

Don't be shy! This is the internet! We're human beings! We're also more than human beings, VisuddhiRaptor is a cyborg for example, and I'm a "Divine" or something, allegedly, allegedly!

Come on, I dare you, ask and say anything about Buddhism, start a dialogue, or talk about other things in relation to Buddhism though.

Yes, you'll get lots of responses, arguments, troubles possibly, annoying flies all trying to buzz around you and sit on you, and no I'm not saying you're a pile of dung, I'm saying your delicious food, and if left sitting out, the flies will try to lay eggs in you, so before they do, EAT IT.

That is, Swallow Your Ego, Eat Yo Self, and get on with it! You've joined! Time to have some fun! Speak freely while you can, say wonderful things while you can! Ask great thought provoking questions!
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: derekf208 on July 22, 2017, 06:12:25 pm
I was just joking. :)  That's why there's the "whelp", and the little wink emoticon guy.  I was having fun with the stereotype that buddhist are clean, organized and value simplicity.  I know better than to actually believe that buddhist are always like that, and I also figured that we all collectively know better than that too.  So I tried to be funny with it.  I missed the mark.  But I also should have known better that the receiver doesn't always interpret the meaning of the message based on the intent of the messenger.  Plus, I attempted my humor on a risky medium(Internet/social media) where this kind of thing always happens.  However, I've had some seriously great laughs with people on other message boards, so I chose to take the risk. 
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: ground on July 22, 2017, 10:53:39 pm
DO YOU KNOW WHAT AGREEING TO DISAGREEMENT IS!?
Disagreement is when different linguistic expressions are used and the parties involved are not willing to use the expressions the other party uses.
There is rarely disagreement about linguistic expressions to be used for impressions of the 5 senses. E.g. when a buddhist and a muslim see a car they usually don't disagree that 'car' is the appropriate linguistic expression to be used as designator. Why? Because both can directly perceive the same object.
However when it comes to objects that can only be directly perceived by each party individually, like e.g. feelings or emotions/passions, then disagreement may arise quite often. Why? Because one party can't directly perceive the feelings or emotions/passions of the other party.
And when it comes to objects that cannot be directly perceived by anybody at any place at any time because these objects are inexistents and mere objects of belief, like e.g. God or re-birth, then disagreement is close to certain.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 23, 2017, 12:13:25 am
I was just joking. :)  That's why there's the "whelp", and the little wink emoticon guy.  I was having fun with the stereotype that buddhist are clean, organized and value simplicity.  I know better than to actually believe that buddhist are always like that, and I also figured that we all collectively know better than that too.  So I tried to be funny with it.  I missed the mark.  But I also should have known better that the receiver doesn't always interpret the meaning of the message based on the intent of the messenger.  Plus, I attempted my humor on a risky medium(Internet/social media) where this kind of thing always happens.  However, I've had some seriously great laughs with people on other message boards, so I chose to take the risk.

I took what you wrote as a joke and ended up writing something I enjoyed as a response so thank you, had you not done it, I would not have been inspired to write exactly what I did! Furthermore, I think Buddhists should be those great people we hope for, but I can't even get these people to call themselves Buddhists, they just call me "Not Buddhist", I guess they want me to be like them?
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: Arkena on July 23, 2017, 05:47:03 pm
No Ground you dont understand how following non consistent views can help widen your perspective when pursued correctly...if  pursued incorrectly they lead to misunderstanding...
So you say that e.g. following both, the view 'phenomena are impermanent' and the view 'trees are permanent',  'widens your perspective' because you are following inconsistent views.  :lmfao:

this is certainly not a practice for beginners who are just learning one view/model...
No this certainly is a practice for irrationalists.  :teehee:

This is why modern psychologists learn different psychological models as they emphasise and understand things differently and some views may be better to understand certain situations. Why do you think psychologists and scientists learn different theories of the same topic if all this led to was confusion?
you are confusing 'inconsistency of views' with 'relative applicability of views depending on context'. When different views are applicable in different contexts then the views are not necessarily inconsistent. They are inconsistent only if they rely on contradictory general premises, i.e. premises independent of contexts.


Eckhart tolle's teachings on the now has had tremendous implications for my understanding of mindfulness and being...again that is my experience...you are relying on a theory as to how different views interact when pursued by one person.
Eckhart tolle's teachings is one system of thought. Since I do not know his system I can't say whether it is consistent or not. Provided it is consistent there are certainly other views of other people that are not consistent with respect to his system. And these views may be used as a basis for mindfulness which is inconsistent with his system of thought and practicing thus would be nonsense and block any progress.
It would be like resonating with the christian religious view of a soul but practicing buddhist mindfulness which is based on the view of anatta.

and as usual you like to point out where people are wrong because they dont subscribe to your views.
No it is not about my view because I know that everybody knows better than everybody else. But if people's views and practices are inconsistent they will never validly know for themselves but they will be bound to believe and doubt. That is why I am pointing out errors. I do not care what view people finally hold. And I do not care whether they prefer to believe and doubt over validly knowing. But if views are expressed in this forum then it may happen that I will respond and if I respond I will respond authentically.

Perhaps expressing your view without judging others as wrong/not understanding would lead to more harmony...besides...you cannot tell someone they they are wrong...you can only help them realise it for themselves...otherwise it just becomes a butting of heads.
It is not about persons, but it is about views. Harmony is fine but harmony that supports error is a poison.

Ground you clearly are moking my views, re stating my views then laughing at the end IS mocking.
I dont know why you think denying it is going to work, perhaps you think your some wise sage who would never do such a thing...your not, your a flawed human like all of us.

The only poison I see is your intollerance for other peoples views when they dont conform to your narrow interpretation of Buddhism and what is correct. Who are you that thinks he can stand there and dictate what he thinks are errors? Do you think your a fountain from which only truth flows that you can stand there dictating what is truth? No one has come to this forum for your oppinions but to exchange ideas...not to see if their views measure up to your standards.

You cant even understand the common practice of teaching conflicting views in higher education and how this encourages the individual to think...if you cannot understand a practice that is widespread in every higher education place of learning in the world then maybe you should go and get a higher education so you can figure it out rather than clinging to your sectarian approach to Buddhism.

Your approach to Buddhism is mindless as it doesnt encourage the individual to think about conflicting views and relies on exposure to a single source to make them an educated parrot who will only know one schools teachings.

To point out inconsistencies in my practice you would first of all have to understand the limitations of the minds ability to perceive the inner world and how mindfulness and the being mode are your eyes and ears of the inner world. You would have to understand that belief in the absence of evidence is just that a belief ...no matter how many thousands of years of scholars have argued it. Without evidence it means nothing. To realise this...your whole world would crumble as you realise there are many things like the teaching of no self you take as truth which cant be substantiated through concrete evidence.

Or maybe cling to your ignorance and tell me how views you dont understand are inconsistent...you know your usual Ego led Bs that makes you feel like youve said something important when your just as ignorant as most people in the world.

I wont bother reading your posts again...your a huge troll and a blight on the free exchange of ideas on this forum.

Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: ground on July 23, 2017, 08:36:52 pm
No Ground you dont understand how following non consistent views can help widen your perspective when pursued correctly...if  pursued incorrectly they lead to misunderstanding...
So you say that e.g. following both, the view 'phenomena are impermanent' and the view 'trees are permanent',  'widens your perspective' because you are following inconsistent views.  :lmfao:

this is certainly not a practice for beginners who are just learning one view/model...
No this certainly is a practice for irrationalists.  :teehee:

This is why modern psychologists learn different psychological models as they emphasise and understand things differently and some views may be better to understand certain situations. Why do you think psychologists and scientists learn different theories of the same topic if all this led to was confusion?
you are confusing 'inconsistency of views' with 'relative applicability of views depending on context'. When different views are applicable in different contexts then the views are not necessarily inconsistent. They are inconsistent only if they rely on contradictory general premises, i.e. premises independent of contexts.


Eckhart tolle's teachings on the now has had tremendous implications for my understanding of mindfulness and being...again that is my experience...you are relying on a theory as to how different views interact when pursued by one person.
Eckhart tolle's teachings is one system of thought. Since I do not know his system I can't say whether it is consistent or not. Provided it is consistent there are certainly other views of other people that are not consistent with respect to his system. And these views may be used as a basis for mindfulness which is inconsistent with his system of thought and practicing thus would be nonsense and block any progress.
It would be like resonating with the christian religious view of a soul but practicing buddhist mindfulness which is based on the view of anatta.

and as usual you like to point out where people are wrong because they dont subscribe to your views.
No it is not about my view because I know that everybody knows better than everybody else. But if people's views and practices are inconsistent they will never validly know for themselves but they will be bound to believe and doubt. That is why I am pointing out errors. I do not care what view people finally hold. And I do not care whether they prefer to believe and doubt over validly knowing. But if views are expressed in this forum then it may happen that I will respond and if I respond I will respond authentically.

Perhaps expressing your view without judging others as wrong/not understanding would lead to more harmony...besides...you cannot tell someone they they are wrong...you can only help them realise it for themselves...otherwise it just becomes a butting of heads.
It is not about persons, but it is about views. Harmony is fine but harmony that supports error is a poison.

Ground you clearly are moking my views, re stating my views then laughing at the end IS mocking.
I dont know why you think denying it is going to work, perhaps you think your some wise sage who would never do such a thing...your not, your a flawed human like all of us.
Of course  I am mocking your views but I am not mocking others which was what you asserted.  :fu:

The only poison I see is your intollerance for other peoples views when they dont conform to your narrow interpretation of Buddhism and what is correct. Who are you that thinks he can stand there and dictate what he thinks are errors? Do you think your a fountain from which only truth flows that you can stand there dictating what is truth? No one has come to this forum for your oppinions but to exchange ideas...not to see if their views measure up to your standards.
you are completely missing the point I made. Neither do I say 'buddhism is this' or 'buddhism is that', nor do I try to persuade people to change their views. I have merely pointed out the errors in your thinking.

...rather than clinging to your sectarian approach to Buddhism.
:lmfao:

To point out inconsistencies in my practice ...
I have pointed out the errors in your thinking that you have expressed here in this thread with your words. Not more, not less.

I wont bother reading your posts again...your a huge troll and a blight on the free exchange of ideas on this forum.
See that is the difference: while I am referring to your view and your thinking expressed with words you are aiming at the person.
But I am strongly advocating freedom of speech. So you are free to say whatever you like as you are free to read or to ignore as it pleases you.  :fu:
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 23, 2017, 09:00:28 pm
Great job! It is really important to point out these things clearly. This sort of belligerent and rude attitude exists on all sorts of forums, political, religious, even comments on YouTube videos where people chime in with insults and mockery over muscle and fitness videos or even cat videos or make up videos, its just that people are frustrated deep down, they have been beaten up and beaten down all their lives, and are just pissed off.

They are hungry, cranky, ungrateful, tired, dissatisfied, they are suffering, and like any animal, when an animal is in pain, it tends to lash out, it tends to hiss and bite at and scratch everyone and everything no matter how kindly you approach it.

So what we are seeing in the world is a symptom, a reaction to pain.

Their laughter is not happy laughter like the way we might laugh at a good old fashioned fart joke, but rather, its a bitter laugh that is almost like a cry because they are stinging and stung.

What is stinging them is not you or me though really, its not even anything that happened in their past necessarily, its just the feeling of weakness, powerlessness, insecurity, not being safe, being threatened, not having an identity or being sure of it, not having a guarantee that anyone or anything loves them or supports them.

Even God or Nature seems to be working against them at every turn, and this makes everyone unhappy, why do we struggle? Why did that drop, why won't anyone listen? Sometimes it becomes so bad that we can't even believe someone could ever be our friend, being betrayed time and again, endless terror in our lives, we open the TV, again, mean interactions all around.

One of us HAS to STOP IT. One of us has to be the one who genuinely speaks the truth and says "you know what? That hurts, and I don't like being hurt, and lets be nice to each other if we can, lets learn, lets benefit, and if we can't, then lets fight honorably, lets point out how to make each other better and nicer, and if you won't, I'll do it, and if you refuse to follow me, then see which strategy wins in the end, which looks better and is more beneficial and noble, you may have prestige, but I may have the right sort of pride, pride that I did well in the face of troubles, that I spoke the truth, that I admitted to pain and suffering and asked for it to stop and worked against it". No? That is when you pull out your Machete and say "Listen M*therf*cker, You Twerp, I'll chop your arms off" haha just kidding, don't do that. Do the best you can!

But yes, these internet people are indeed twerps, often disabled, often in great pain, often mentally deficient, often socially retarded and tactless.

A person like me, who has always lived life like a prince, always been beautiful, always been loved (except by twerps online), has had such experiences as to give me a different perspective.

Being a Prince among men has allowed me to see things outside of the pain of being a brutish thug from a thugs brutish life of hostility. Here is why:

Because I am so beautiful and attractive, everyone just automatically gives me everything, they automatically like me and love me and adore me and want to help me. My voice is sweet and innocent and not threatening at all, everything is gentle and cute and friendly, so I've gotten away with practically everything, from even the most aggressive and violent bullies and government agencies even.

That tells you something. It tells you that some people have it hard, and some people are born lucky. It tells you that all your skill in language and knowledge can not save you when the world is truly superficial and petty, that everything we say is largely meaningless rubbish, except how we care and love and show compassion and virtue, its all "Pure Appearance (a book you can look up)" and its all just vain photography.

People are RACIST, SEXIST, PREJUDICED, BIASED. They give me everything, special privileges and "unfair" advantage because of my "fair and beautiful" appearance. I win before the game has even started! To top it off, I have amazing tact, amazing linguistic skills, and I'm manipulative as hell. Everything works in my advantage, as a Prince among men. Yet this peaceful and happy station and position "above" people, has given me the perspective of seeing pain (you can bet the Buddha sounds sexy as well), and in seeing the plight of people, seeing how we are really just like animals, how we really just make sounds and its only a miracle we think we know what each is talking about, we should be just, but with a justice tempered with mercy.

These people are born deficient with troubled lives. If they were not living such troubled lives, they might have developed into better characters, but instead, they were born with broken bodies, brains, and hearts, in a sort of "hell state", where I got all the toys, had all the love in the world, all the advantages (Think of the story of the Buddha), these people were singing the song from Annie.

That also means, there is nothing so amazing or of great value about me either, I was given cheat codes these people were not given (all that I'm saying has a specific psychological purpose, this is all a "thought program" to run through and see what issues it brings up, its purpose is therapeutic meditation).

When you are on top, when your heart is superior, you do not kick and trample those inferior, but you reach out to help them ascend, because they too can be great, potentially, and we hold out hope for that, that they may start to imitate the best, but first they need to cover their bases, they need to believe that things can be better, that they aren't just trapped being the entirely disgusting ugly person in the mirror they say every day, the nerd, the loser, who even their parents would probably sell and no one loves them at all.

If we can be a friend to someone, a good presence, it might inspire them. We can say to them in all honesty then "You look so freaking ugly to me, I hate your f*cking stupid face, you nerd, but I will try to help you to become better, because I want whatever it is you are now, to die forever, I want you to be admirable and great, this is how you can do it in my opinion". Certainly they will snarl, because of their nasal problems too, the problems are un-ending for them.

Our problems are less than their problems, because we're sexy, our sh*t almost smells good, and we're entirely glamorous, and where we are not, we're workin' on it diligently!

So here is how to be an ideal human being and gain advantages over people in real life and also online:

Figure out how to look as attractive as possible, cute, innocent, harmless, symmetrical, not weird, very much the perfect beauty.

Be physically clean at all times, ritualistically clean, clean anus, clean crotch and genitals, clean armpits, no smell, no disregarding the care of your body or ascetic decay.

Wear innocuous clothes that give an impression of cleanliness and even wealth, do not look like a dirty hippy or fall into any sorts of stereotypes in any extremes.

Speak in a gentle and friendly sincere and bubbly sort of way with sincere enthusiasm and talk to people like they are your own intimates, your own closest friend even if you have just met them, and speak from the heart like you would to your deepest and dearest love or your pet or baby. Do not put on a show, and keep a glow and intensity in your eyes which is engaging and hypnotic. When people feel they are liked, they are even less hostile usually, except the many mentally deficient people who need some time to wear down with these tactics.

Make sure you are totally taken care of and well kept, nice hygiene, hair kept nicely, not oily and giving any indicators of being a dirty "troll" like the "villains (see the etymology)" of the world.

The villains of the world had no voice as widespread as they do now, now the floodgate is opened to their opinions and ideas and brutishness, and they have come out of the woodwork, limping and skittering onto every computer to shout out their cries of pain and frustration with everything and all the world and take their vengeance on anything at all. In the past, villagers were limited to complaining in their villages among themselves, but now their "really smart" ideas can be heard practically anywhere and be widely publicized internationally.

(I am specifically trying to keep taking swipes at them to bring out inferiority complexes people may have, a person who has truly overcome many evil things will not find any of this offensive, this separates the true Aryans and Arahant Hearts from the people who are actually possessing dangerous complexes, which can show up in the form of genuine snobbery which I'm satirizing, and also in the great feeling to "put a person in their place!" which can be a type of hubris (in its original meaning of wanting to cut people down to bring oneself up higher or put people down for the purpose of causing suffering to enjoy some sort of feeling better about oneself, pointing the fingers and accusing in order to not point the finger at oneself).

A good person, takes great joy in making people happy, is strained by causing unhappiness, but regardless, does and says what they believe is most right and most good for people, they care, even theoretically, enough that they reach out to people in order to try to help always.

So one can forgive the tactlessness of those lacking eloquence and skill and even knowledge, who have idiotic ideas, little knowledge of history or strategy, and are belligerent and hostile due to innate frustration causing them to constantly be annoying.

If we can identify the areas of pain, maybe we can offer them solutions, but like mad hungry babies, they might hit it away until they are very desperate.

Desperate is what anyone needs to understand (you don't need to actually become a starving bum, you can just simulate it if you have the right sort of mind). In desperation, OH MANGIRL LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT DESPERATION!

When we are desperate, truly, truly at the bottom, truly, truly, at the last straw, MY GOD.

My God we are grateful, for every little drop, for every little help, for even cruelties which end up being kind or giving us a little of something. Desperation. Then any smile truly counts and isn't taken for granted, it means the world, when you're at the END OF THE WORLD.

Fallen, Failed, and even beyond crying, when the tears have turned to sand coming out of your eyes now, when its all reached the Wall of Death and your heart simply beats and there is nothing more you can do, and then good comes, however small, you could weep joyfully forever.

So this is what it is. Ungratefulness.

Ungrateful for each other, for the time we have to spend with each other, for the words we hear and give to each other or can. We take for granted that we even can talk to each other, that we can even honor each other with each other. We take it all for granted and treat each other like crap, and kick away every effort, every gesture, because WE ARE RICH. We get so much of it, we think it will last forever, that we'll never be desperate, there is so much air, so much water, so many people with their opinions, that we do not honor our interactions at all, we don't try to treat people like our families because we have families already and these people are excluded.

So there are some things we can all think about. I probably won't though. I'll be the first bad guy, you be the first good one!
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 23, 2017, 09:10:19 pm
So when you talk to ground, imagine ground were the only person left on Earth to talk to, and then see how that might change your interaction with him. Imagine that ground were inescapable, that no matter where you turn or try to run off to, there was ground. What then would you do? How then would you talk to ground? If you couldn't get away and had to face them and resolve things.

This can be true in many ways, as the things we might try to avoid in one way, sometimes seem to pop up in another way. Its best to make the best of what comes our way when we can, sometimes a mouse can turn into a rat, and a rat into a dragon if we keep looking away.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: derekf208 on July 25, 2017, 06:33:55 pm


Yuttadhammo Bhikkhu has some great teachings and books on mindfulness.

https://www.sirimangalo.org/text/how-to-meditate/ (https://www.sirimangalo.org/text/how-to-meditate/)
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: ground on July 26, 2017, 01:03:12 am
The best of all books from a Theravada perspective is Bhikkhu Analayo's Satipatthana-The-Direct-Path-to-Realization which you may download here:
http://www.abhayagiri.org/media/discs/APasannoRetreats/2013%20Fourth%20Foundation%20of%20Mindfulness/Sources/Analayo_Satipatthana-The-Direct-Path-to-Realization.pdf (http://www.abhayagiri.org/media/discs/APasannoRetreats/2013%20Fourth%20Foundation%20of%20Mindfulness/Sources/Analayo_Satipatthana-The-Direct-Path-to-Realization.pdf)
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 26, 2017, 09:20:18 am
The best of all books from a Theravada perspective is Bhikkhu Analayo's Satipatthana-The-Direct-Path-to-Realization which you may download here:
[url]http://www.abhayagiri.org/media/discs/APasannoRetreats/2013%20Fourth%20Foundation%20of%20Mindfulness/Sources/Analayo_Satipatthana-The-Direct-Path-to-Realization.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.abhayagiri.org/media/discs/APasannoRetreats/2013%20Fourth%20Foundation%20of%20Mindfulness/Sources/Analayo_Satipatthana-The-Direct-Path-to-Realization.pdf[/url])


Why do you think it is best?
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: derekf208 on July 26, 2017, 06:46:48 pm
The best of all books from a Theravada perspective is Bhikkhu Analayo's Satipatthana-The-Direct-Path-to-Realization which you may download here:
[url]http://www.abhayagiri.org/media/discs/APasannoRetreats/2013%20Fourth%20Foundation%20of%20Mindfulness/Sources/Analayo_Satipatthana-The-Direct-Path-to-Realization.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.abhayagiri.org/media/discs/APasannoRetreats/2013%20Fourth%20Foundation%20of%20Mindfulness/Sources/Analayo_Satipatthana-The-Direct-Path-to-Realization.pdf[/url])


This is good.  Thanks ground.
Title: Re: Book recommendations on mindfulness
Post by: The Artis Magistra on August 11, 2017, 02:13:06 pm
Can someone direct me to a page or pages on this website that link tons of pdf files on Buddhism? I can try to click them and download them on my phone.
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