Author Topic: Buddhist Self Deception  (Read 4371 times)

Offline J. McKenna

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Re: Buddhist Self Deception
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2013, 02:52:14 pm »
ism do no work    people do the work of people     sometimes they name the plan for work an ism    given a sense of belonging to and being one with others eases fear only
...i found there was no "i" anywhere.....

Offline songhill

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Re: Buddhist Self Deception
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2013, 06:17:47 pm »
It has been my impression that Vedic ritual (karman) was understood to mediate between this world (anrta) and the ideal (rta). (Where the two meet is said to be satya/truth.) I believe Bauddha objects to this as did other shramana groups, for example, the Jains. This opens the question of ritual that is understood not to mediate. In that case, it could be okay and not self-deceiving. It may even offer a placebo effect.

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Buddhist Self Deception
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2013, 06:49:44 pm »
In the West, we have a wealth of symbolic systems from Freemasonry to Alchemy...
Yeah, but they don't work.
Does "Buddhism?"
Yes

Quote
Isn't it so that nobody is enlightened anywhere, by anyone?
There have been enlightened masters alive as recently as the 1990s. There are alive today meditation masters that may or may not qualify as 'enlightened', if that is a quality of egolessness. It's not too late to find someone to show you the path, but it may be soon. You won't find that in books or the Internet.
 :bigtears:
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 07:28:03 pm by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Buddhist Self Deception
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2013, 04:31:28 am »
As you may know, the Buddha in the Agamas clearly rejects ritual on the grounds that one who engages in it "goes this way and that, fettered by his senses".

Isn't the fetter attachment to rites and rituals - not the rituals themselves?

Offline DharmaNerd

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Re: Buddhist Self Deception
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2013, 10:37:20 am »
I believe most rituals wind up acting as a form of conditioning.   A series of actions which help us return to a desired state.  I have noticed in my own practice that as soon as I have any kind of real experience/realization my mind immediately jumps in to try to figure out how I got there, it wants to "mark the place".  Even though I know that "there" is always here. 

I agree with the folks who say that rituals and methods wind up becoming warped and dogma because of teachers not understanding the "why" of their teachings.  There are good examples of this in the book I just read Dancing in the Dharma : The Life and Teachings of Ruth Denison .  She lost her lineage because she adopted different teaching methods than the exact ones her teacher gave her.

Rituals may get in the way of integrating practice into real life.  The need for the ritual to induce the desired state may interfere by becoming a condition to that state.  I have a hard time meditating with my eyes open for example, so open eyes may become associated with some ego state.

Offline Lobster

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Re: Buddhist Self Deception
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2013, 10:51:56 am »
Quote
I believe most rituals wind up acting as a form of conditioning.

They do and we often require ritualistic and even regimented behaviour to adopt practices that we have no desire to repeat . . . they may hold aversion or resistance, even though ultimately beneficial. So in a sense we increase our conditioning to enable the means to break conditioned being. Dangerous tactic but often effective . . .  :hug:

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Buddhist Self Deception
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2013, 11:01:21 am »
We're actually conditioned to "mark" or index as children in school and it carries over into our adult life and forward.

Offline Monkey Mind

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Re: Buddhist Self Deception
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2013, 11:13:31 am »
I have very fond memories of hearing Ruth Dennison speak. She is an amazing inspiration.

Offline DharmaNerd

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Re: Buddhist Self Deception
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2013, 01:54:07 pm »
I had never heard of Ruth Denison before this book but I found her story very inspiring and the book well worth reading.

 


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