Meditation and mental health

[katersy]

I have recently read several articles describing potential negative "side-effects" of meditation. These include anxiety attacks, exacerbating depression and triggering psychosis / schizophrenic episodes.

Most meditators would of course say that the anxiety, depression and psychosis are already there, and that the meditation is just revealing them.

However, when it comes to these matters, particularly psychosis / schizophrenia, it is entirely possible for a person to live their life without ever having those vulnerabilities triggered. Events such as a bereavement, or other stressful life events, can set off the underlying illness and leave the person reliant on medication, psychiatric help and suffering some pretty nasty experiences for the rest of their life, as well as leaving them at the risk of suicide.

The same is true of anxiety and mild - moderate depression, but less life-threatening.

This article tackles some of these questions, including some fairly disturbing anecdotes from participants on the 10-day vipassana Goenka retreats. Bear in mind that the writer of this article was involved in a pretty dodgy cult in the 1970s, so of course is likely to have a negative view of Eastern-origin spiritual practices. But not all of her criticism and findings, by any means, can be explained by her own involvement with this cult.

See here:
http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/MaryGarden.html


I'd be interested, as a sufferer of anxiety and depression, to know what you think.

Best wishes

Katy

[Bodhisatta2012]

Hi, Katersy.

The idea of Buddhist meditation is to discover the nature of one's own mind, and with this understanding to develop the skill to bring it to a state of equanimity; to learn how to reflect upon the consequences of our intentions, both mental, and behavioral, and to modify our actions in such as way as to assure a beneficial outcome.  As you pointed out already if we are mentally ill, then this process can at best be flawed.

The second issue is the nature of the illness.  Some illnesses can simply be a function of programming.  We learn ineffective or even injurious thought processes and their resultant behaviors.  Correcting these errors of effectiveness will be of benefit in many of these cases.  But, unfortunately, much programmed-in damage is difficult if not impossible to correct after a certain very young age.  My wife as a Clinical Psychologist deals with these kids at our state mental hospital and rarely do such children ever reach the status of beneficial contributors to society, with exceptions of course.  Most wind up in prison or dead.

From a Buddhist perspective concurrent with education as to The Four Noble Truths, and focus upon the benefits of living one's life in accordance with the Noble Eight Fold Path, Buddhist meditation and mindfulness practice will be beneficial in most cases to those whose training process as children is not as severe and limiting.  However, if there is organic brain damage the task of reversing programmed illnesses and behavioral disorders will be most difficult as the being may not in fact meet the definitions of sentience or sapience, which would leave them in a state similar to that of an animal incapable of discovering, penetrating, studying, and penetrating The Dhamma. 

Without The Dhamma, there is little or no benefit to meditation from a Buddhist point of view.  With organic brain damage one may just not be process capable.

[Monkey Mind]

Yes, and yes. I am a person who has experienced hallucinations, and have a diagnosable "anxiety disorder". It is one of many reasons I started to meditate as a teenager, I wanted to better understand my mind. And yes, during meditations I have experienced intense hallucinations, anxiety and panic, and other emotional discomforts. Fortunately, the meditation instructions I was following predicted that these things could occur, so I knew there was that potential. If I had not been forewarned about this possibility, I think it would have been very scary. One of the best benefits from meditation for me is that I have a better understanding of the origins, rise, and dissipation of unpleasant mental/emotional/psychological phenomenon. In short, the darkest places of my "soul" are not at all dark and scary for me anymore.

I think a lot of people who are promoting "meditation as a tool for mental wellness" have the best intentions but not the best credentials. A lot of these programs are missing some crucial considerations. *Meditation is not always relaxing, nor is it supposed to be. *Meditation can be very painful for certain people, e.g. people living with PTSD, panic attacks, physical injury, etc. *All kinds of stuff can arise during meditation. *Occasional mediation is about as useful as occasional whiskey drinking. Benefit from meditation only occurs with daily practice. *The benefits of meditation are accumulative through consistency. Meditating 1 hour a day, everyday will provide more results than 10 minutes every other day. *For many people, it will take A LOT of time and energy before they discover the actual benefits of meditation, so in a culture that rewards immediate gratification many people will become quickly discouraged with meditation.

[dhammaseeker51]

I think for most people who practice daily, the benefits far outweigh any disadvantages.
I suffered from anxiety and panic attacks over many years and never understood the mechanism behind them. They're a consequence I think of trying to cram too much into our lives, living "at speed" as we are urged to do by the media and the capitalist/consumerist system. Its just takes a trigger to start them off...
Since meditating I am happier, more relaxed, and give more thought to others besides myself. I can't really see a downside.
Its useful on the mundane level as well. Once you sit down and start to meditate you'll remember all of the things you should have done, even where you've left your keys! (keep a notepad by the cushion!) 
I can't comment about its effects on clinical depression or paranoia.
with Metta

[katersy]

Hi all

Here's another article on this topic.

http://www.openbuddha.com/2002/09/06/the-dangers-of-mediation/

I am not deliberately trying to be negative and I hope I don't get thrown off this board or anything 

I am beginning to discover some fairly dodgy evidence, based on psychological studies and anecdotes, about the potential negative side effects of meditation. Personally, I really have absolutely no wish to experience hearing voices, clouds of smoke, funny shapes, shaking floors, or whatever. I already have enough mental baggage to deal with given anxiety and depression problems, and exacerbating those plus adding psychotic episodes is really not a path I wish to take. If this means giving up the path to "enlightenment", whatever that is, then so be it. Well-being, happiness and treating myself and others kindly, not provoking and exacerbating mental illness, has to be my priority.

Katy

[Caz]

This is why there are meditation guides and it is always advisable to find a good sangha to help guide you through your experiences, ive been meditating for many years and havent had any side effects as described. 

[J. McKenna]

Meditation guides are like breathing guides, or blood-pumping instructions; useless since the action taught is a natural action. Hidden perhaps, and made distant by a human tendency to overcomplicate things ... ?

[pickledpitbull]

Hey, Katy,

I think that MM and Ron can reply with more authority on the psychological aspect, but I can give you a little guidance from my own experience.

In addition to some "Buddhist" meditation, I also do it as part of my yoga practice.  In both cases, I limit myself to a few minutes - 15 or even less if that's not working out for me.  My problem is that I become very self-critical when I meditate (emphasis on very).   When this starts and I can't get past it, I just stop meditating.

I would advise that you give it a try, and if your mind goes to scary places, then simply stop.  Don't force it.  Eventually, with practice, the bad thoughts will be less frequent and maybe even less controlling of you.

The major benefit of meditation is that it's "you" time.  It's the time you set aside to sit yourself down and stop the world from turning for a few minutes.  The added benefit of meditation is that you will, in time, be able to control your emotions such as anger, impatience, and selfishness.  You might even feel less stressed.

Start with a guided meditation until you get into the groove.  If you have anxiety/depression issues, maybe you would do better if you have your therapist guide you through it.  Then if anything scary happens, you have the support you need right there.

Good Luck.

[Michael_S]

anxiety and depression problems, and exacerbating those plus adding psychotic episodes is really not a path I wish to take. If this means giving up the path to "enlightenment", whatever that is, then so be it. Well-being, happiness and treating myself and others kindly, not provoking and exacerbating mental illness, has to be my priority.

Well said. Unlike many, I downplay the importance of meditation. I take the eightfold  path
elements all equally, and do not exalt meditation. Also, I personally am not on a quest for
"enlightenment" but rather wish to reduce the amount of stress and perceived difficulty
within my life.

If those who emulate monastic buddhists wish enlightenment, I hope they
find it. I just want to free myself up to enjoy what life has to offer without going in too deep
to get it. Maybe next time around there will be Nibbana, but for now, I stop to smell the roses
along the way.
Metta to all
Michael

[Monkey Mind]

And thinking about my anxiety as both kamma and consequence of previous kamma has been helpful for me. This is not about "blaming the victim", as it is so often thought of in the West. Beyond genetic predisposition to anxiety (a long family history of mental illness), I am aware that anxious thought/ behavior generates more anxious thought/ behavior. Each turn of the wheel I internalize more anxiety, which generates more anxious outcomes. Instead I train myself to replace anxious thought/ behavior with loving-kindness for myself and others. Next turn of the wheel, I do not internalize anxiety, so less anxious outcomes. The effect of this is accumulative and exponential. The patience to do this was a side effect of meditation.

On a side note... At another on-line Buddhist forum, a moderator threatened to have me banned for talking about this stuff. So I realize I am skating on thin ice here. With all due respect to the TOS, people living with mental illness are best advised to seek out professional help regarding their symptoms. As for meditation is concerned, seek out a teacher that has had experience with mental illness.

[Shi Hong Yang]

I think it's wise you have caution in you mind regarding meditation as therapy like you read in the research. It's a trend still being played with these days with psychiatric care and trauma care mental and physical.  It's a poorly thought out trend that keeps popping up.  I don't support it.  There are not enough safety checks and balances in place.  Poorly trained by just reading medical journals or books doctors, nurses in medical fields have been playing with the idea  of meditation as therapy for the past 20-30 years now.  Most can take a 45 hour class in meditation as therapy course and then use whatever is thought up by the instructor in their practices.  No standards, no guidance, supervision, required hours at all for those in charge of very ill people to teach them how to meditate.  And worse yet teachers in public schools have been fired rightly for conducting meditation in their classes as a way to control the figity kids.

It's true that through your own dilligent effort you have the potential for making some progress on your own, it's also true dodgey teachers pop up everywhere. 


Meditation teachers traditionally train for 10 years with supervision of reliable teachers that are recognized either as lay experts or monastic experts.  Once trained they are tested by their teachers (good students seek out various teachers so they can learn as much as possible before teaching meditation).  Fame does not figure in their recognition, the best ones are not famous but dilligent and well thought of and known for their morality in personal conduct and public.

[Shi Hong Yang]

There are some rather excellent meditation masters who have specialized in mental and physical applications of meditation and they are not famous but are sought out for their astuteness in being able to train those suffering with various illnesses from depression to pain management.  They lay Buddhists, monastics and some not Buddhist's who have reached a level of competancey needed to meet the needs of people who are in great suffering.

[heybai]

Funny thing I have noticed.  A lot of people (and not just Westerners) who are attracted to Buddhism seem to be both A) fun, interesting, warm-hearted, curious, etc.; and B) more likely than others to suffer from some variety of anxiety & depression.  Am I right about this?  I know that researchers have published findings suggesting that some people prone to depression also tend to have a more realistic grasp of their environments than do "normal" otherwise healthy individuals.  The phenomenon has been dubbed "depressive realism" --

Studies by psychologists Alloy and Abramson (1979) and Dobson and Franche (1989) suggested that depressed people appear to have a more realistic perception of their importance, reputation, locus of control, and abilities than those who are not depressed.

People without depression are more likely to have inflated self-images and look at the world through "rose-colored glasses", thanks to cognitive dissonance elimination and a variety of other defense mechanisms.

This does not necessarily imply that a happy person is delusional nor deny that some depressed individuals may be unrealistically negative (as in studies by Pacini, Muir and Epstein, 1998).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

Perhaps this can be over-stated, but I wonder if this tendency, upon reflection (with meditation practices as an aid), turns the mind toward compassion, since, after starting with a clearer grasp of dukkha, such individuals are prone to see others (humans and other beings) as fellow wanderers sharing the same hopes, struggles, and yearning for liberation.

I've pretty much admitted to myself that I am not ever going to be highly skilled at meditation, but I have benefitted from simple mindfulness practices such as those touched on in this thread.  It's hard for me to imagine that breathing meditation is going to be dangerous for you, Katy, since you've already expressed a good measure of awareness about any such risks.

I like this line of thought as well.  Meditation isn't the goal -- leading a rewarding, meaningful life is:

>>>anxiety and depression problems, and exacerbating those plus adding psychotic episodes is really not a path I wish to take. If this means giving up the path to "enlightenment", whatever that is, then so be it. Well-being, happiness and treating myself and others kindly, not provoking and exacerbating mental illness, has to be my priority.<<<


Well said. Unlike many, I downplay the importance of meditation. I take the eightfold  path
elements all equally, and do not exalt meditation. Also, I personally am not on a quest for
"enlightenment" but rather wish to reduce the amount of stress and perceived difficulty
within my life.

 

heybai

[Michael_S]

Hey Heybai-
Your post is some of the most insightful thinking I've seen in years.
Although based strictly on personal observation, I conclude that yes,
persons lacking depressive episodes do see the world with rose-colored glasses
to some degree. They are unrealistic. They are also perhaps are more prone
to base their decisions upon the will or opinions of groups, circles of friends,
gurus, etc. rather than their own observations. The "not-self (Anatta) concept comes
easily to them. They are far more communal. Again, just personal observation and
I grant this may well not be true. However, I am a very individualistic person with
a strong personality and am suspicious of communal thinking.

When I commented:

Well said. Unlike many, I downplay the importance of meditation. I take the eightfold  path
elements all equally, and do not exalt meditation. Also, I personally am not on a quest for
"enlightenment" but rather wish to reduce the amount of stress and perceived difficulty
within my life.

I based this on my own negative experience with meditation; finding it to be a recipe provided
by others that would supposedly be of benefit to me. Nevertheless, all persons will have unique
backgrounds and personalities and their practice can evolve in such a manner to fit them.
Those that believe themselves to be more individualistic and less communal are likely to be
more prone to depression and anxiety, as I have been. They do not so easily fall into the comfort
of other people's thinking and opinions. I take the Kalama Sutta seriously and apply critical thinking
to all aspects of the  Buddha path; taking what I want and leaving the rest for further examination.
Thanks for the insightful post.
Metta
Mike S

[katersy]

Hi all,

Thank you for all your interesting and insightful comments. I really appreciate the responses.

Pickledpitbull (nice name by the way...you must be a doggy person?): I might try some yoga, actually. I did it a few times in the past and enjoyed it. The self-criticism is grim, isn't it! Take a look at this: http://www.moulindechaves.org/content/view/47/184/lang,en/  - this is a list of dharma talks by a teacher I like very much (Martin Aylward). Take a look at "The cult of 'should'" (fairly near the top of the list). He talks about self-criticism during meditation.

Shi Hong Yang: It's worrying that people can take a 45 hour course in meditation as therapy, and are then viewed as qualified to teach mentally ill people to meditate... very worrying indeed. Can you recommend some of the good meditation teachers (preferably lay teachers, as I'm a lay person, but either lay or monastic is fine) who have experience in mental health therapy / meditation? Are you thinking of Jon Kabat-Zinn? If so, I like him... 

Heybai: Definitely right about the personality type that is attracted to Buddhism. Interesting, isn't it. Depressive realism sounds a bit...depressing... I prefer magical realism, like in the book 100 Years of Solitude... 

Michael_S: Stopping to smell the roses along the way sounds like a good plan. And I feel the same way as you about the Kalamma Sutta. It's good stuff. Did you know, though, that people in oriental cultures have a much, much lower rate of suicide and depression than do people in western countries, despite their being more genetically prone to such problems. This is supposedly because there is a much larger emphasis on community, group mentality, family...

Monkeymind: I'm glad that meditation has helped you so much with your own mental issues. I hope it will help me with mine, too. I think I really need to find a good teacher.

dhammaseeker1: Yeah, things always pop up during meditation... things I forgot to do... lol. I very often get creative flashes whilst meditating, and have to try really hard not to leap off the cushion and start composing a song, or starting a novel.

Katy