Author Topic: Meditations to Reduce Lust  (Read 8560 times)

Offline Timbo

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Re: Meditations to Reduce Lust
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2010, 11:10:29 am »

In general my definition of lust is an intense, mostly uncontrollable desire for or to do something.  For example, sexual congress is a biological drive.  Abating hunger, or starvation for food or oxygen is a biological drive, which mostly cannot be resisted.

With regard to violation of my marriage vows, this is not a matter of a biological drive which cannot be resisted.  It is more of a temptation.  However, when in the midst of coitus, during passionate lovemaking the biological responses take over and one's physical responses take over.  Additionally, one's behavior is reinforced in the sense of Skinnerian conditioning, which can lead to sexual addiction.

This is the type of lust that is addressed in The Precepts regarding sexual misconduct.

A gauge which can be helpful in determining if a type of sexual behavior is in fact "misconduct" is by asking the question, "Is someone being harmed?", which reflects back to the First Precept:  "Cause no harm...."

Hope this helps.

_/\_Ron


This makes perfect sense to me, Ron. I think I would approach this issue about the same way.

Is this a consensus position among contemporary Buddhists in the west? Or is there a lot of controversy and debate about it?

Hugs and puppies,


Tim

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: Meditations to Reduce Lust
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2010, 01:28:55 pm »
(I)'m pretty sure that there is no consensus, if you mean that everyone has voted and agrees. This is just my take on it and pretty much what most Buddhists with whom (I) have an association would agree.  (I) will let others speak for themselves in this thread so that you may get an idea of what each's take is re. the subject.

For reference purposes: (Paraphrasing)  Buddha gave us a gauge in a sutta where he asked his son, Rahula, What is the purpose of a mirror?  His son responded in effect: Reflection, father.

Just so! said Buddha.  And in this way we must reflect upon the potential consequences of our actions.

resource for study regarding this topic:  http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.061.than.html


In general my definition of lust is an intense, mostly uncontrollable desire for or to do something.  For example, sexual congress is a biological drive.  Abating hunger, or starvation for food or oxygen is a biological drive, which mostly cannot be resisted.

With regard to violation of my marriage vows, this is not a matter of a biological drive which cannot be resisted.  It is more of a temptation.  However, when in the midst of coitus, during passionate lovemaking the biological responses take over and one's physical responses take over.  Additionally, one's behavior is reinforced in the sense of Skinnerian conditioning, which can lead to sexual addiction.

This is the type of lust that is addressed in The Precepts regarding sexual misconduct.

A gauge which can be helpful in determining if a type of sexual behavior is in fact "misconduct" is by asking the question, "Is someone being harmed?", which reflects back to the First Precept:  "Cause no harm...."

Hope this helps.

_/\_Ron



This makes perfect sense to me, Ron. I think I would approach this issue about the same way.

Is this a consensus position among contemporary Buddhists in the west? Or is there a lot of controversy and debate about it?

Hugs and puppies,


Tim
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline Tsomo

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Re: Meditations to Reduce Lust
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2010, 07:13:32 pm »

I have through study understood that not-transcended lust is a major contributing cause of keeping not fully accomplished buddhist practioners bound to endless compulsive rebirth with a deluded mind in any of the six realms of desire.

I'm happily married. I treat my wife with kindness and courtesy, as she does me. Sometimes I am tempted to cheat with other women, but I would never do it. That would be cruel and stupid. I enjoy sex, sometimes I look forward to sex when I am doing other things. Sometimes I'm distracted by thoughts and feelings of sexual desire when I am meditating.

Is this the same thing as lust? Please define your terms.

If it is lust, would you call it "transcended lust" or "not-transcended lust"? How does one tell the difference?

Hugs and puppies,


Timbo
:dharma:
I wish you wouldn't ask me such difficult questions Timbo :^)
I hope that I have not made the impression that celibacy is best for all students/practitioners of buddhism.
Of course I don't think so.  
I understand only a fraction of buddhist non-speculative philosophy.
The deeper I dig the vaster the ultimate nature of reality turns out to be.
And I am only beginning to understand a little bit of it all.

For me buddhism started with becoming aware of this precious opportunity of being a human being and  having encountered the Buddha Dharma as well, aware of the cause of suffering and death, of the law of karma, and, to attain enlightenment how hatred, lust, and illusion must be eliminated on the path.
This was going to be hard work, and if one would be a diligent student/practitioner, attaining
enlightenment could, depending on one's karma even happen in this lifetime, or could/should happen
within the coming sixteen life times .... only.*
So I have been taught.

Then, big surprise, one day while reading a Nyingma-pa teaching I discovered that hatred, lust, and
delusion do not need to be rejected.
They can be transcended.

Transcending the three fires hatred, lust, and delusion needs a clear understanding of the Four Noble Truths, of the fact that all phenomena are illusory, how they exist in a non-dual mode, are uncontaminated, unborn, are empty of self, and much more I guess.
Understanding all this through contemplation and meditation leads to sudden subtle shifts in awareness, to experiencing one's innate non-dual all pervading radiant empty mind.      
With much study and much contemplation, and meditation practices eventually a shift in awareness takes place that causes one's mind to remain forever in it's original non-dual state of empty radiant cognizance.

Timbo, please understand that this is not a water-proof explanation. This is an attempt that reflects my present utterly incomplete level of understanding about transcendence of klesas, and the daunting depths
and hights of buddhist thinking.
  
I might be wrong, but I think that lust in people who have not transcended lust is a feeling that is based on dualistic perception, and until transcended will remain one of the obstacles that obscure the always present non-dual essence of our already fully complete enlightened mind.
All our thoughts and actions are based on desire since we live in one of the six realms created by our desires.

Being married with someone who is both kind and compatible is in my eyes, for many reasons, more fun than living alone.
I can only say that if I would be happily married, or meet a compatible friend to share my life with, I then would try to find a bonafide married tantric master within the tibetan tradition and ask for teachings.


In -The Flight of the Garuda- , a teaching written by the mystic poet-hermit Lama Shabkar Tsokdruk Rangdrol White Foot (1841-1922), he writes:

Lovers, imagine an attractive man or woman and visualize him or her in your heart.
Gluttons, think about the food that you desire: meat, fancy cakes, or fruit.
Parading peacocks, remember and think about the clothes you would like to wear.
Mean traders, think about every type of richness that you desire: horses, jewels, money.
Contemplate carefully all these things and allow much space for the feeling of desire.
And look when desire arises directly at the essence of it.
Investigate then first where it comes from, secondly where it is now, and finally where it goes.
Look carefully at the color and form of it and all other characteristics.
  Ultimately your desire is empty and elusive.
Reject it [desire] not! It is the wisdom of discriminating awareness.

Timbo, these kinds of teachings might make some students think that they can do as they like since all is ultimately empty of self anyway. Of course thinking like that is a big mistake.

*..... sixteen rebirths .... deep sigh .... or?
Once an itinerant accomplished yogin with clairvoyant powers was teaching the people in a village.
Somebody asked him how many lifetimes more he would have to live before attaining liberation.
The yogin, speaking the truth, said, '774'.
'O no!', cried the man, and went home totally upset.
Now everybody wanted to know how many lifetimes they would have to live before reaching enlightenment.
The yogin said to this person, '434', to the next, '1200', to the next, '57', next, '964', next, '695', and so on, and having heard their prediction all people went home sighing and crying.
Last of all a very shy man asked the yogin the same question.
The yogin said, '3000 lifetimes'.
'Only 3000?', whispered the man, then bowed down deep, and with a smile on his face went his way.

 :namaste:

(The part of the teaching by Lama Shabkar White Foot from his Flight of the Garuda is translated by me
from dutch into english. Please allow for un-english english.
And the story about the clairvoyant yogin I read ages ago. The insignificant details and the numbers of rebirths given are not the same as I read then, except for the unforgettable number of rebirths for the shy man.)

May All Beings Be Happy!
        


  
 









  






      

« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 09:57:10 pm by Tsomo »

 


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