Author Topic: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating  (Read 1375 times)

Offline Rahul

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2017, 04:14:36 am »
One of the primary influences that spurred my meditation practice when I first started, around three or four years ago, were sudden realisations I got while practising single point of focus meditation (I called them epiphanies). They could be about anything, from my personal habits to relationships to psychological understandings to what to do next with a piece of music I was working on, and they'd seem all the more valid from the fact that they'd come seemingly out of nowhere. I'm sure many of you--if not all--have had these. They would fill me with incredible excitement, the sense that I was making large steps forward in developing myself, in understanding myself and the world.

However, as time went on, these became less and less frequent, and now they come very rarely. I'm trying to work out what's caused their decline, and was wondering if any of you had any experience in/knowledge of/suggestions for this. I should point out that they aren't the reason I meditate, but I do miss them!
Yes... And I thought it just happened to me.

When I started meditating seriously, a year and a half ago, within a span of first couple of months, I had realizations - vivid like a movie - on emptiness, non-self and impermanence. Those were so strong, so vivid realizations, they seemed otherworldly. Period. Since then, until today, not another single experience like that. Not only that, but during those months I used to get strong overwhelming experience of pitti during meditation. So overwhelming that all I could feel was pitti, and couldn't feel my body at all, felt like I had no body at all. Now, such feeling rarely comes, and whatever feeling of pitti I get during meditation is faint to moderate.

I still wonder what's the reason for such stagnation.

Offline zafrogzen

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2017, 10:21:54 am »
Hi Rahul,

Excuse my ignorance, but what is "pitti."

As for your lack of epiphanies. I'm not a teacher so I can only relate to my own experience. A year and a half of serious meditation is barely a start.

Perhaps you're overthinking it, trying to fit it into some scenario or expectation of how you think it should be, rather than having faith in it and letting it be what it is at that particular time.

If you haven't started doing short retreats (sesshins in zen) with a group and a teacher, that might be helpful.

Here's something I wrote that might be interesting-- http://www.frogzen.com/meditation-basics/

My first formal meditation training was with Shunryu Suzuki in the 60's and later with Kobun, Robert Aitken and many other teachers (mainly zen). However, I've spent the most time practicing on my own, which is all I do now. I'm living in a rather isolated area so I miss connecting with other practitioners. Despite my interest in zen I've made an effort to remain secular. You can visit my website at http://www.frogzen.com

Offline Pixie

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2017, 12:53:45 pm »

Excuse my ignorance, but what is "pitti."



I think he probably means " piti" = rapture/ bliss.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/glossary.html#pq


_/|\_


May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Offline Rahul

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2017, 09:30:41 pm »
Hi Rahul,

Excuse my ignorance, but what is "pitti."

As for your lack of epiphanies. I'm not a teacher so I can only relate to my own experience. A year and a half of serious meditation is barely a start.

Perhaps you're overthinking it, trying to fit it into some scenario or expectation of how you think it should be, rather than having faith in it and letting it be what it is at that particular time.

If you haven't started doing short retreats (sesshins in zen) with a group and a teacher, that might be helpful.

Here's something I wrote that might be interesting-- http://www.frogzen.com/meditation-basics/

Yeah, maybe 'piti' is popular spelling in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%ABti

So far I am meditating alone, on my own, and I rely on instinct as my teacher.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2017, 01:57:02 am »
...so the immediate thought process followed: "Who said that!?"

I sometimes ask myself "who is being mindful?"  It makes my brain hurt!   :teehee:


Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2017, 12:55:24 pm »
Hi Rahul
The bliss thing can be a problem. If you aren't able to experience it, then it's difficult to describe. If you have experienced it, then it's not surprising you want to to experience it again and again. We have the term 'bliss bunnies' for those meditators who just want to bliss out whenever they meditate. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is a holding back kind of experience rather than something positive that moves you on.
I went through a phase of not being able to meditate without bliss happening, and I found it rather distracting and a relief when that episode, which lasted a few months, waned somewhat. Although I can now get back to the bliss whenever I want to, I rarely do as it becomes too much of a distraction. Maybe you are just moving through a somewhat quiet episode in your practice, one that it is important for you to experience before moving on to the next.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Pixie

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2017, 01:09:24 pm »
Quote from: stillpointdancer
We have the term 'bliss bunnies' for those meditators who just want to bliss out whenever they meditate.


Really? I've never heard that expression used at any of the Buddhist meditation classes I've been to myself.

Ajahn Brahm talks about bliss in his meditation handbook "Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond."

The first 4 chapters can be found here:

https://www.dhammaloka.org.au/files/pdf/Ajahn_Brahm-Mindfulness_Bliss_and_Beyond-Chapters1-4.pdf



 _/|\_

« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 01:25:51 pm by Pixie »
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2017, 01:37:00 am »
Hi Pixie. I think 'bliss bunnies' is a UK thing, or at least with the Triratna group I was with. I meant that attachment to bliss can hold you back too.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Pixie

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2017, 03:07:24 am »
Hi Pixie. I think 'bliss bunnies' is a UK thing, or at least with the Triratna group I was with. I meant that attachment to bliss can hold you back too.


Hi spd,

Yes I knew what you meant, just hadn't heard that expression before!

:-)


May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Offline Solodris

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2017, 11:45:32 am »
Every thought enamates from a feeling, the desire to complete the thought is but the construct of language. When we let go of the desire to complete the thought, we can examine what feeling gave rise to the thought.

Offline ground

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Re: Sudden Realisations/Epiphanies while Meditating
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2017, 09:07:39 am »
Every thought enamates from a feeling, ...

I'd say first there is a subtle thought which one may also call 'intuiton' and from that feeling arises.
Quote
From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.002.than.html


That however does not contradict that feeling may also arise from full-fledged conceptual thinking. And that feeling then may stir further thoughts.

the desire to complete the thought is but the construct of language.

if we take 'construct of language' as habituation through applying language, yes. But more important is that thinking consciousness takes its thought objects as true objects as if those would exist independent of itself, the consciousness.

When we let go of the desire to complete the thought, we can examine what feeling gave rise to the thought.

If the perceptible is recognized to be empty of true existence it does neither stir thought nor feeling.

 


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