Author Topic: why meditate?  (Read 382 times)

Offline serendipity

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why meditate?
« on: July 17, 2017, 05:22:48 am »
Buddha says that the world is only a hallucination.
He used a simile to explain the situation:
the world is like the FOG, not seen by normal people, but only seen by people with eye disease.
The sentient beings are like the people with eye disease, seeing things that don't exist.

so why meditate?.........in order to cure the inherent disease that causes sentient beings to be seeing things.  This is the real reason why disciples of Buddha then practiced meditation.  When the disease is cured, we will find ourselves in the world of REALITY, where there are no physical existence, called Nirvāṇa.  This achievement will also end the endless cycle of reincarnation.

So we should take meditation seriously, not doing it just for relaxation or for health reasons, if we want to seek liberation.  In order to cure the inherent disease and get rid of hallucinations, the meditation has to be practiced in a specific way, and not in other ways.  The method is similar to one-pointed concentration, but not exactly the same.

How to find the focusing point:
Any tangible OBJECT should never be of our focusing point.  The focusing point should only be found in focused eyes.  The focused eyes always reflect a vigilant spirit.  We should try to grasp this vigilant spirit as our focusing point.

With correct practice over a sustained period of time, maybe 10 years or more, we will develop a third eye in the center of our brain.  This third eye has its own sphere of sight other than that of the two physical eyes.  The sphere is the world of Reality

« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 06:08:27 pm by serendipity »

Offline ground

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 08:18:35 am »
Buddha says that the world is only a hallucination.
He used a simile to explain the situation:
the world is like the FOG, not seen by normal people, but only seen by people with eye disease.
The sentient beings are like the people with eye disease, seeing things that don't exist.
Can you provide a source/quote for this? I never came across it in any of the sutras I have read.


you state some unusual hypotheses.

Offline serendipity

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 05:36:06 pm »
Can you provide a source/quote for this? I never came across it in any of the sutras I have read.

you state some unusual hypotheses.

<The Shurangama Sutra>
“It is also like a person with an eye-ailment who sees flowers in space. If he gets rid of his eye-ailment, the flowers in space will disappear.” 
http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/Shurangama/Shurangama.htm
Volume Four

<Mahavaipulya Purnabudha Sutra>The Perfect Enlightenment Sutra
“Just like a person who has a speck of dirt in his eye and because of that believes they are seeing illusory flowers in the sky or even a second moon.
“Really there are no flowers in the sky, but because you don’t know that there’s something blocking your vision you believe it to be true."
https://ashaya.net/perfect-enlightenment-sutra/
--------------------------------------------------------

Buddha says that the hallucinations are caused by the six sense organs, which have accumulated lots of habits (embedded in DNA) over the past lives and have become like distorted mirrors.  When you use the eyes to see; use the ears to hear...use the brain to think,  you will only get unreal images and information, from which hallucinations arise.  The reason why we practice one-pointed concentration is to detach our mind from the six deceptive sense organs.  To be able to detach ourselves from the six sense organs is called LIBERATION.


<The Shurangama Sutra>
"... you donot yet know that your organs have accumulated habits that are without beginning. "
http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/Shurangama/Shurangama.htm
Volume Four
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 06:02:14 pm by serendipity »

Offline ground

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 11:07:59 pm »
Can you provide a source/quote for this? I never came across it in any of the sutras I have read.

you state some unusual hypotheses.

<The Shurangama Sutra>
“It is also like a person with an eye-ailment who sees flowers in space. If he gets rid of his eye-ailment, the flowers in space will disappear.” 
http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/Shurangama/Shurangama.htm
Volume Four

<Mahavaipulya Purnabudha Sutra>The Perfect Enlightenment Sutra
“Just like a person who has a speck of dirt in his eye and because of that believes they are seeing illusory flowers in the sky or even a second moon.
“Really there are no flowers in the sky, but because you don’t know that there’s something blocking your vision you believe it to be true."
https://ashaya.net/perfect-enlightenment-sutra/
--------------------------------------------------------

Buddha says that the hallucinations are caused by the six sense organs, which have accumulated lots of habits (embedded in DNA) over the past lives and have become like distorted mirrors.  When you use the eyes to see; use the ears to hear...use the brain to think,  you will only get unreal images and information, from which hallucinations arise.  The reason why we practice one-pointed concentration is to detach our mind from the six deceptive sense organs.  To be able to detach ourselves from the six sense organs is called LIBERATION.


<The Shurangama Sutra>
"... you donot yet know that your organs have accumulated habits that are without beginning. "
http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/Shurangama/Shurangama.htm
Volume Four


Obviously there is a bit of an exeggaration since what is 'hallucinated' is only the mode of existence of what appears to the senses. But it is correct that this mode of appearance is a feature of the senses that is - to be correct - the sense consciousnesses.
However mind is dependent on the six sense consciousnesses. So one may only 'detach' mind from the six sense consciousnesses by means of a cessation of perception which is thus actually a cessation of ordinary mind. But in one-pointed concentration there is still perception although it is reduced. If you practice this way the only effect is the ordinary mind of the gods of the form or formless realm but not liberation. And this ordinary mind of the gods is only temporary since it fades rapidly once meditation session is terminated which then may cause attachment to it which again is the opposite of liberation.
That is why the buddha has finally even rejected themeless concentration, concentration without object:
Quote
"He discerns that 'This theme-less concentration of awareness is fabricated & mentally fashioned.' And he discerns that 'Whatever is fabricated & mentally fashioned is inconstant & subject to cessation.' For him — thus knowing, thus seeing — the mind is released from the effluent of sensuality, the effluent of becoming, the effluent of ignorance. With release, there is the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.121.than.html
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:19:27 pm by ground »

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 10:26:04 pm »
Can you describe what is Liberation in your view and if you really want it? Why would suicide not lead you to it (and I am not trying to make you kill yourself, this is an important question to get you to discuss in detail and explain and justify certain ideas).

Offline serendipity

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 11:46:10 pm »
Obviously there is a bit of an exeggaration since what is 'hallucinated' is only the mode of existence of what appears to the senses. But it is correct that this mode of appearance is a feature of the senses that is - to be correct - the sense consciousnesses.

However mind is dependent on the six sense consciousnesses. So one may only 'detach' mind from the six sense consciousnesses by means of a cessation of perception which is thus actually a cessation of ordinary mind.

Buddha would not exaggerate what he'd awoken to .  Buddha says only the truth.
Besides, it is clearly said in many Buddhist Sutras  "the outside world does not exist "

<The Lankavatara Sutra>
"... for things are imagined to exist really where in fact there are none. It is like seeing a mirage which vanishes as one approaches."
http://lirs.ru/do/lanka_eng/lanka-nondiacritical.htm

The situation is to some extent introduced in the modern theory of "The Holographic Universe".
Buddha revealed more than 2600 years ago that The  World of Reality is a FLAT world,  like images reflected from the surface of a plane MIRROR.  However, with the HELP of the six sense organs, the FLAT world becomes very real and three dimensional.

We can go back to the World of Reality only through meditation. no other ways; and only through meditation done correctly.

It is said in the sutras that Buddha sees the world "like a mirror reflecting images"
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 12:14:34 am by serendipity »

Offline ground

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 12:11:53 am »
Obviously there is a bit of an exeggaration since what is 'hallucinated' is only the mode of existence of what appears to the senses. But it is correct that this mode of appearance is a feature of the senses that is - to be correct - the sense consciousnesses.

However mind is dependent on the six sense consciousnesses. So one may only 'detach' mind from the six sense consciousnesses by means of a cessation of perception which is thus actually a cessation of ordinary mind.

Buddha would not exaggerate what he'd awoken to .  Buddha says only the truth.
Besides, it is clearly said in many Buddhist Sutras  "the outside world does not exist "

<The Lankavatara Sutra>
"... for things are imagined to exist really where in fact there are none. It is like seeing a mirage which vanishes as one approaches."
http://lirs.ru/do/lanka_eng/lanka-nondiacritical.htm

The situation is to some extent introduced in the modern theory of "The Holographic Universe".
Buddha revealed more than 2600 years ago that The  World of Reality is a FLAT world,  like images reflected from the surface of a plane MIRROR.  However, with the HELP of the six sense organs, the FLAT world becomes very real and three dimensional.

We can go back to the World of Reality only through meditation. no other ways; and only through meditation done correctly.


Why would you go out and get food if the outside world does not exist? This is hilarious.  :teehee:

Offline serendipity

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2017, 12:17:24 am »
Why would you go out and get food if the outside world does not exist? This is hilarious.  :teehee:
this is the typical question an unenlightened person always ask

Offline ground

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2017, 12:38:07 am »
Why would you go out and get food if the outside world does not exist? This is hilarious.  :teehee:
this is the typical question an unenlightened person always ask
This is one of the typical responses to such kinds of questions of escapists.  :teehee:

Offline serendipity

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2017, 01:15:55 am »
This is one of the typical responses to such kinds of questions of escapists.  :teehee:
Actually I planned to explain the situation later.

The outside world does not exist.
Then where does the World of Reality exist?
Ans: The World of Reality exists inside the brain of every sentient being.

Inside the body of every sentient being there exists a UNIVERSE.
When you enter the UNIVERSE inside of yourself, the physical body becomes dispensable.

When you enter this inside Universe, you are on longer inside the nervous system
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 01:28:41 am by serendipity »

Offline ground

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2017, 01:24:13 am »
This is one of the typical responses to such kinds of questions of escapists.  :teehee:
Actually I planned to explain the situation later.

The outside world does not exist.
Then where does the World of Reality exist?
Ans: The World of Reality exists inside the brain of every sentient being.

Inside the body of every sentient being there exists a UNIVERSE.
When you enter the UNIVERSE inside of yourself, the physical body becomes dispensable.

I prefer the attitude of the buddha here: what the world unanimously knows as existing I declare as existing too.

Offline serendipity

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2017, 01:37:47 am »
I prefer the attitude of the buddha here: what the world unanimously knows as existing I declare as existing too.
I doubt Buddha ever said any such thing

Offline ground

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2017, 02:32:07 am »
I prefer the attitude of the buddha here: what the world unanimously knows as existing I declare as existing too.
I doubt Buddha ever said any such thing
What you should doubt are the irrationalities you are expressing as 'The outside world does not exist.' when you yourself go out to get food to eat or when you yourself watch out for cars when crossing the streets in order not to get run over.

It's hilarious that you doubt that the buddha was a rational person.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 02:34:23 am by ground »

Offline derekf208

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2017, 05:54:15 am »
I think what Serendipity is referring to is in regards to "perceived" reality.  Quantum physics ideas and experiments such as the Double Slit Experiment can certainly raise some interesting questions about how we, observers, can get in the way of the very experiment we are conducting.  However, I wouldn't take the "holographic universe" theory as far as to say that "there is no universe". 

If you have doubts as to whether or not the outside world exists, there's a solar eclipse happening next month, and depending on where you live, you may have the rare opportunity to be directly under the moons shadow as it moves across America.  From what I've heard, the experience is quite grand.  By witnessing one massive celestial object(the moon) cross in front of another massive celestial object(the sun), this may help non-believers to confirm that indeed the Sun and Moon exist, and therefore conclude that the outside world does indeed exist as well.  :wink1:

Offline Solodris

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Re: why meditate?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2017, 06:31:06 am »
Can you describe what is Liberation in your view and if you really want it? Why would suicide not lead you to it (and I am not trying to make you kill yourself, this is an important question to get you to discuss in detail and explain and justify certain ideas).

Liberation seems to be the path towards Nirvana. Suicide is completely unconducive since it is the ego overcome by attachments leading to suffering. Enlightenment seems to me to be the vision of liberation and Nirvana the product of completing the path towards attaining collective Samadhi.

The question remains though, as 'The Bodhisattva Ideal' suggests, how animals would be liberated if they cling to Samsara with no means to be liberated, lest the entire humanity be arhats and be reborn as animals. Simply to reproduce the process in darwinian evolution. In Hinduism this is called Eternal Recurrence. We are not Hindus so let's not let that happen again.

Trees have nervous systems too. Everything will have to come together or we will fail. Heisenbergs uncertainty principle is a testament of this.

 


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