Author Topic: NKT section  (Read 1515 times)

Offline ChangYuan

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NKT section
« on: April 02, 2010, 08:03:07 am »
This is a quote I read in the purpose and intent section "This sub-section was specifically created so the New Kadampa Tradition could be presented in a neutral atmosphere, one not only beneficial to the practitioners of the tradition, but also for those of us who are unrelated to such practice and might like to know more in regard to it."

If it is truly to be a neutral section, and provide info for those that don't know much of it, then shouldn't there also be a sticky about the controversy of the NKT tradition and dorje shugden? Maybe I am wrong, but I thought neutrality would include showing both sides.
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Re: NKT section
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2010, 09:21:03 am »
This is a quote I read in the purpose and intent section "This sub-section was specifically created so the New Kadampa Tradition could be presented in a neutral atmosphere, one not only beneficial to the practitioners of the tradition, but also for those of us who are unrelated to such practice and might like to know more in regard to it."

If it is truly to be a neutral section, and provide info for those that don't know much of it, then shouldn't there also be a sticky about the controversy of the NKT tradition and dorje shugden? Maybe I am wrong, but I thought neutrality would include showing both sides.

Hi, welcome.  :)

The guidance you quote goes on to state very clearly:

''With that in mind, please remember that this sub-section is not for controversial material or debate, including mounting a defense or rebuttle of criticisms --- that's what the Danger Zone is for.''

To be quite clear. The NKT section is NOT for discussion of 'controversial' subjects.

That is true of all sections relating to Traditions.  That is why the Danger Zone was created.

There is no controversy about Dorje Shugden practice within the NKT, so it should not form part of a section for content descriptive of that tradition.  The views of others and indeed any assumed 'controversy' belong in the Danger Zone.

Even the Danger Zone we expect Right Speech so statements harmful to maintaining that standard, whether aimed at the NKT or the Dalai Lama, are not permitted.

Threads on the subject have been frequent, repetitive and sometimes acrimonious on most Buddhist forums which permit debate of it.   ;)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 10:09:51 am by Yeshe »

Offline ChangYuan

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Re: NKT section
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2010, 10:10:36 am »
This is a quote I read in the purpose and intent section "This sub-section was specifically created so the New Kadampa Tradition could be presented in a neutral atmosphere, one not only beneficial to the practitioners of the tradition, but also for those of us who are unrelated to such practice and might like to know more in regard to it."

If it is truly to be a neutral section, and provide info for those that don't know much of it, then shouldn't there also be a sticky about the controversy of the NKT tradition and dorje shugden? Maybe I am wrong, but I thought neutrality would include showing both sides.

Hi, welcome.  :)

Yes, you are wrong, and you must know it as the guidance you quote goes on to state very clearly:

''With that in mind, please remember that this sub-section is not for controversial material or debate, including mounting a defense or rebuttle of criticisms --- that's what the Danger Zone is for.''

To be quite clear. The NKT section is NOT for discussion of 'controversial' subjects.

That is true of all sections relating to traditions.  That is why the Danger Zone was created.

There is no controversy about Dorje Shugden practice within the NKT, so it should not form part of a section for content descriptive of that tradition.  The views of others and indeed any assumed 'controversy' belong in the Danger Zone.

Even the Danger Zone we expect Right Speech so statements harmful to maintaining that standard, whether aimed at the NKT or the Dalai Lama, will not be permitted.

You may also find few takers, as threads on the subject have been frequent, repetitive and sometimes acrimonious on most Buddhist forums which permit debate of it. ;)


I guess maybe I wasn't clear in what I said. As it says that the section is not for controversial material, that is wiped away by the fact that it contains NKT material, which is controversial to begin with. My big issue is the false claim to neutrality, when both sides are not presented.
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Offline Caz

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Re: NKT section
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2010, 10:17:40 am »
This is a quote I read in the purpose and intent section "This sub-section was specifically created so the New Kadampa Tradition could be presented in a neutral atmosphere, one not only beneficial to the practitioners of the tradition, but also for those of us who are unrelated to such practice and might like to know more in regard to it."

If it is truly to be a neutral section, and provide info for those that don't know much of it, then shouldn't there also be a sticky about the controversy of the NKT tradition and dorje shugden? Maybe I am wrong, but I thought neutrality would include showing both sides.

There is no contraversy with the NKT about the practise if you do not wish to view the section then you have a choice regarding so.
This site also abides by right speech, if you wish to post something of a extremly negative overtone do so in the dangerzone, But please be do abide by the TOS.
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Re: NKT section
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2010, 10:19:06 am »
This is a quote I read in the purpose and intent section "This sub-section was specifically created so the New Kadampa Tradition could be presented in a neutral atmosphere, one not only beneficial to the practitioners of the tradition, but also for those of us who are unrelated to such practice and might like to know more in regard to it."

If it is truly to be a neutral section, and provide info for those that don't know much of it, then shouldn't there also be a sticky about the controversy of the NKT tradition and dorje shugden? Maybe I am wrong, but I thought neutrality would include showing both sides.


Hi, welcome.  :)

Yes, you are wrong, and you must know it as the guidance you quote goes on to state very clearly:

''With that in mind, please remember that this sub-section is not for controversial material or debate, including mounting a defense or rebuttle of criticisms --- that's what the Danger Zone is for.''

To be quite clear. The NKT section is NOT for discussion of 'controversial' subjects.

That is true of all sections relating to traditions.  That is why the Danger Zone was created.

There is no controversy about Dorje Shugden practice within the NKT, so it should not form part of a section for content descriptive of that tradition.  The views of others and indeed any assumed 'controversy' belong in the Danger Zone.

Even the Danger Zone we expect Right Speech so statements harmful to maintaining that standard, whether aimed at the NKT or the Dalai Lama, will not be permitted.

You may also find few takers, as threads on the subject have been frequent, repetitive and sometimes acrimonious on most Buddhist forums which permit debate of it. ;)



I guess maybe I wasn't clear in what I said. As it says that the section is not for controversial material, that is wiped away by the fact that it contains NKT material, which is controversial to begin with. My big issue is the false claim to neutrality, when both sides are not presented.


I will state again that the section is for description of the tradition and discussion flowing from that - for example requests for clairification or information, not criticism of it in adverse terms such as 'controversial'.  

What may be 'controversial' to you may be the core of compassionate practice for another.  

I wouldn't wade into a Zen forum and call them 'controversial' .  We have the Danger Zone for that, and Right Speech is adhered to there as well.

If you find a tradition controversial you are hardly neutral in your view. In which case please use the Danger Zone.

Some forums permit no discussion of these issues at all.  Here we have provided you with a special section for controversy.

Please respect that, and the traditions of members.  

This thread is but one example of such discussion:

http://www.freesangha.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.0
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 10:32:08 am by Yeshe »

Offline humanitas

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Re: NKT section
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2010, 11:33:31 am »
Hello LostMonk,

I can see how the confusion might emerge in the ambiguous wording.  I have edited the informational guidelines of the Kadampa Tradition clarifying that the section is for learning about the practices of this tradition.

NKT is presented neutrally at FreeSangha as a whole, meaning that we are not going to mix the issues of controversy in with the practices.  So the Danger Zone is a fine place to air out the controversy, and the NKT section is a fine place to learn more of the practices or to further ones existing studies in this tradition.  In this way, you can see, both sides are represented in the same forum, just not in the same section.  Which is only respectful towards our NKT dharma peers.

As for the controversial material, you will find you are a little late, as it's taken place I believe in a 20+ page thread where everything that could be said has been said.  The membership collective agreed to leave the issue well enough alone now that everyone's had their piece aired from the nasty below the belt responses to the fair open-minded responses... you'll find it all.  Enjoy reading it!

Now, after careful evaluation on the part of the administration of FreeSangha, we have found it in the spirit of equanimity to create a subforum for those of our membership who are beginning and/or continuing their studies in New Kadampa Tradition.  FreeSangha nonetheless, remains apolitically non-sectarian.

Apologies for the confusion, I hope it is clear to you now.

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« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 03:39:22 pm by 0gyen Chodzom »
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Offline humanitas

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Re: NKT section
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2010, 01:02:16 pm »
 :smack:

Sorry rough day today.  I am a victim of my mis-understanding.  Yes, the line was unambiguous, and I will reinsert it.  I was informed and understood incorrectly that I had to update the "what this section is for" to clarify that it is the wrong place to place controversy-beefs.

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Offline catmoon

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Re: NKT section
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2010, 02:10:43 pm »
Ya I kind of had the impression that this area was for discussions within the boundaries of the NKT belief system. Challenges to that belief system go in the Danger Zone. Right?
Sergeant Schultz was onto something.

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Re: NKT section
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2010, 02:16:52 pm »
Ya I kind of had the impression that this area was for discussions within the boundaries of the NKT belief system. Challenges to that belief system go in the Danger Zone. Right?

Yup.

All the subforums which are about the various traditions are the same. It's a 'safe' environment for expolring that tradition.

Anyone wanting to challenge and criticise, especially negatively, should use the DZ and also be mindful that Right Speech is the rule for the whole forum.

Anyone who fails to follow that guidance will be tarred and feathered in line with ToS.  LOL :)

 


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