Author Topic: Jonangpa  (Read 10148 times)

Offline zerwe

  • Member
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2010, 08:27:19 pm »
Dorje Ling--Atlanta, GA.

Offline heybai

  • Member
  • Posts: 2145
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2010, 09:54:27 am »
I did not mean to imply that HH the 14th Dalai Lama, for whom i have the greatest respect, is in any way persecuting Shugden practitioners, nor am i equating the two situations. I had hoped that a historical perspective might shed a little light, especially on how Shugden practitioners may tend to view the 'discouragement' of their practices as a ban, for which there is precedent.

Unfortunately, demonization is obscuring the mindstreams of otherwise sincere practitioners. Accusations of insincerity and hypocrisy are countered with charges of collaboration and worse. I am praying that the decibels might be reduced, and that civility, if not fraternal love, might be restored.

May the union of wisdom and compassion arise and abide in all hearts!

Dear Tashi Nyima,

Thank you for this thoughtful post.  It is evident that you have thought about this issue deeply.  I am not as knowledgeable as you or others here, but this conflict troubled me a good deal when I learned about it (and investigated it until I began to feel ill) last year.  I think this forum provides one, albeit modest, venue for people who have been divided by this strife to meet and cultivate goodwill.  That is the hope at least.

I only realized yesterday that you are ordained.  I look forward to reading your posts and hope you will contribute to these discussions when you have time and energy to do so.  Your study and experience are most welcome here, I am sure.

Well wishes to you --
 :namaste:

heybai
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 09:57:27 am by heybai »

Offline Caz

  • My I strive for the perfection of enlightenment.
  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2192
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2010, 04:06:44 pm »
Historically, 'bans' do not work. The 5th Dalai Lama declared the Jonangpa heretical, expropriated our monasteries, and banned the publication of our texts... and yet, we are still here.

Wow!  I've heard that DL5 also persecuted the Kagyu - killing monks, destroying monasteries, etc..  He must have been one hell of a guy!

Despite that, welcome aboard.

The 5th DL was especially troublesome for many practitoners, His persecution of Jonang school for one thing was extremly shameful and un buddhist, it amazes me how such people can claim to be practising but yet become heavily distracted by the 8 worldly concerns, Tsongkhapa would be not pleased.  :bigtears:
http://emodernbuddhism.com/

This eBook Modern Buddhism – The Path of Compassion and Wisdom, in three volumes, is being distributed freely at the request of the author Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The author says: "Through reading and practicing the instructions given in this book, people can solve their daily problems and maintain a happy mind all the time." So that these benefits can pervade the whole world, Geshe Kelsang wishes to give this eBook freely to everyone.

We would like to request you to please respect this precious Dharma book, which functions to free living beings from suffering permanently. If you continually read and practice the advice in this book, eventually your problems caused by anger, attachment and ignorance will cease.

Please enjoy this special gift from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, who dedicates: "May everyone who reads this book experience deep peace of mind, and accomplish the real meaning of human life."

Offline santamonicacj

  • Member
  • Posts: 2271
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2010, 05:23:57 pm »
The 5th DL was especially troublesome for many practitoners, His persecution of Jonang school for one thing was extremly shameful and un buddhist, it amazes me how such people can claim to be practising but yet become heavily distracted by the 8 worldly concerns, Tsongkhapa would be not pleased.  :bigtears:
How much have you heard about the 6th?
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Caz

  • My I strive for the perfection of enlightenment.
  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2192
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2010, 02:10:28 am »
The 5th DL was especially troublesome for many practitoners, His persecution of Jonang school for one thing was extremly shameful and un buddhist, it amazes me how such people can claim to be practising but yet become heavily distracted by the 8 worldly concerns, Tsongkhapa would be not pleased.  :bigtears:
How much have you heard about the 6th?

1-4 DL where very pure practitoners showed a good example, As soon as worldly concerns mounted the DL lineage became limp spiritually.  :eek:
The 6th DL was also renowned as especially degenerate in his morale conduct.  :eek:
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 02:15:26 am by Caz »
http://emodernbuddhism.com/

This eBook Modern Buddhism – The Path of Compassion and Wisdom, in three volumes, is being distributed freely at the request of the author Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The author says: "Through reading and practicing the instructions given in this book, people can solve their daily problems and maintain a happy mind all the time." So that these benefits can pervade the whole world, Geshe Kelsang wishes to give this eBook freely to everyone.

We would like to request you to please respect this precious Dharma book, which functions to free living beings from suffering permanently. If you continually read and practice the advice in this book, eventually your problems caused by anger, attachment and ignorance will cease.

Please enjoy this special gift from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, who dedicates: "May everyone who reads this book experience deep peace of mind, and accomplish the real meaning of human life."

Offline heybai

  • Member
  • Posts: 2145
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2010, 03:21:05 am »
Here's the wiki word on the 6th DL:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Dalai_Lama

Offline TashiNyima

  • Member
  • Posts: 188
  • namo kalyanamitraya
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2010, 06:18:45 am »
I did not mean to imply that HH the 14th Dalai Lama, for whom i have the greatest respect, is in any way persecuting Shugden practitioners, nor am i equating the two situations. I had hoped that a historical perspective might shed a little light, especially on how Shugden practitioners may tend to view the 'discouragement' of their practices as a ban, for which there is precedent.

Unfortunately, demonization is obscuring the mindstreams of otherwise sincere practitioners. Accusations of insincerity and hypocrisy are countered with charges of collaboration and worse. I am praying that the decibels might be reduced, and that civility, if not fraternal love, might be restored.

May the union of wisdom and compassion arise and abide in all hearts!

Dear Tashi Nyima,

Thank you for this thoughtful post.  It is evident that you have thought about this issue deeply.  I am not as knowledgeable as you or others here, but this conflict troubled me a good deal when I learned about it (and investigated it until I began to feel ill) last year.  I think this forum provides one, albeit modest, venue for people who have been divided by this strife to meet and cultivate goodwill.  That is the hope at least.

I only realized yesterday that you are ordained.  I look forward to reading your posts and hope you will contribute to these discussions when you have time and energy to do so.  Your study and experience are most welcome here, I am sure.

Well wishes to you --
 :namaste:

heybai


Dear Friend

om svasti

Thank you for your observations and kind encouragement.

 Among the New Jonang, there is a renewed commitment to avoid commingling spiritual and temporal 'authority' of any kind, because the exigencies of the latter can and perhaps inevitably impede the proper manifestation of the former.

Still, there is no need to demonize anyone. We are ordinary beings, and perhaps our defining characteristic is obscuration. If we are unable to extend compassion to others, how will we ourselves be objects of the Victor's compassion?

With folded hands, i pray that our minds become free of afflicted emotions, and that we may accept the faith of others with the utmost respect, especially when it contradicts our own.

Ultimate Truth is non-referential.

mangalam

Tashi Nyima, a follower of Shakyamuni
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 06:21:37 am by TashiNyima »

Offline heybai

  • Member
  • Posts: 2145
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2010, 07:57:08 am »
Quote
With folded hands, i pray that our minds become free of afflicted emotions, and that we may accept the faith of others with the utmost respect, especially when it contradicts our own.

Ultimate Truth is non-referential.

This says it all for me.

Offline TashiNyima

  • Member
  • Posts: 188
  • namo kalyanamitraya
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2010, 05:51:36 am »
om svasti

There are many wonderful examples in the history of Buddhism that we can emulate. A most striking one is that of Honen Shonin's reaction to his banishment from Kyoto by the Emperor:

"I have labored here in the capital these many years for the spread of the nembutsu, and so I have long wished to get away into the country to preach to those on field and plain, but the time never came for the fulfillment of my wish. Now, however, by the august favor of His Majesty, circumstances have combined to enable me to do so."

How wonderful it would be if we could all perceive apparent setbacks for the real opportunities they constitute of sharing the Dharma with all sentient beings!

EH MA HO

Tashi Nyima

Offline santamonicacj

  • Member
  • Posts: 2271
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2010, 07:52:33 am »

How wonderful it would be if we could all perceive apparent setbacks for the real opportunities they constitute of sharing the Dharma with all sentient beings!


Slightly off topic, but along the same lines:

http://viralvideochart.unrulymedia.com/youtube/look_at_yourself_after_watching_thismp4?id=Gc4HGQHgeFE

I believe this guy is more spiritually advanced than I can hope to become in this lifetime, even with all the fancy-dancy exotic meditation practices available to me.

I find it odd that some of the people whose 'spiritual qualities' I admire most seem to have no overt spiritual practice.
                                                                       :jinsyx:
 :focus:

p.s. They show him jumping off a diving board. How the hell does he swim?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 07:55:04 am by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Yeshe Zopa

  • Guest
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2010, 09:13:26 am »

How wonderful it would be if we could all perceive apparent setbacks for the real opportunities they constitute of sharing the Dharma with all sentient beings!


Slightly off topic, but along the same lines:

http://viralvideochart.unrulymedia.com/youtube/look_at_yourself_after_watching_thismp4?id=Gc4HGQHgeFE

I believe this guy is more spiritually advanced than I can hope to become in this lifetime, even with all the fancy-dancy exotic meditation practices available to me.

I find it odd that some of the people whose 'spiritual qualities' I admire most seem to have no overt spiritual practice.
                                                                       :jinsyx:
 :focus:

p.s. They show him jumping off a diving board. How the hell does he swim?


The way he touched the souls of those kids made me cry. I use the 'soul' word, as I can't think of a better one for those moments when one mind brings realisations to others and touches their deepest spirits.

If someone just seems to possess that quality naturally, without practice, maybe it is practice from previous lives ripening in this one.  If so, there's hope for me yet! :)

In his case, I would say he has done plenty of practice, it's just not apparent to us.  His whole life must involve abandoning self-cherishing ignorance, helping others deal with their delusions, fear and anger;  and spreading joy and compassion in the way shown on Youtube.

As  an aside, I think there is a word for this I've come across in TB. 'Kusali' means an itinerant, a beggar, but it is also sometimes used to describe a person whose practice is so internal that it is invisible to others.

I am reminded of a Geshe I know who seems able to use visualisation for pretty much everything in rituals; we can see nothing of his practice at those times and maybe some assume he is doing nothing as there is no shrine, bell, drum etc. present.  But it is very deep and powerful, I feel, when I observe and join in.  He regards all his practices as forms of Compassion.  Like many Tibetans, he has family who were killed, tortured or injured, or who died on the journey to India. It would be so easy to be full of hatred, yet there is only compassion.  People like him are remarkable.  It's bad enough if you are born with a disadvantage, or are injured, but if you know your torturer and the killer of your family, how much harder it must be not to hate them, with poison in your 'soul'.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 09:37:50 am by Yeshe Zopa »

Offline santamonicacj

  • Member
  • Posts: 2271
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2010, 09:13:14 am »
I suspect that what TashiNyima calls "radical Zhentong" is the idea that all phenomenal are of the Buddha Nature, not just sentient and enlightened beings. One of my teachers said, "Not an atom in the universe vibrates that is not powered by love."

Is that what Jonangpas call "radical Zhentong"?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 11:41:12 am by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline conebeckham

  • Member
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2010, 09:12:11 am »
Question for the Jonangpas here....Aside from practice of Kalachakra, and view of Shentong, could you provide more detail regarding daily practice...It's my understanding that the Shangpa lineage practices were somehow intertwined with the Jonang lineage, and Taranatha wrote many of the manuals and sadhanas for the Shangpa practices.   Are these practiced currently in Jonang centers, as well?

Offline Thao

  • Member
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2010, 02:40:32 pm »
This has renewed my interest in Buddhism. I felt that there had to be a soul. I also like your view of the guru/disciple relationship being a friendship, walking side by side. We won't get into my disappointment in gurus, not Buddhist ones.

Can you tell me what sutras you base the belief in a soul on? I would like to read them, and I want to learn more, but I am not very good with reading deep things unless it is mysticism. I have put down many a Buddhist book because it was hard to understand, but I often wonder if my belief in the soul and a Consciousness of Love, that I always called God, not the Christian God, was preventing me from even trying to understand.

Offline TashiNyima

  • Member
  • Posts: 188
  • namo kalyanamitraya
    • View Profile
Re: Jonangpa
« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2010, 07:30:11 pm »
Dear Friends

om svasti

Please forgive my inattentiveness to this forum. I believed (erroneously) that i would receive notifications whenever there was a new post. Evidently, that was not the case.

I will reply to each of you in separate posts.

mangalam

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal