Author Topic: Why 'New Jonang'?  (Read 8902 times)

Offline humanitas

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2010, 10:21:06 am »
So Tashi Nyima, does that mean that the "New Jonang" is the only Jonang left, or is there a division between the Jonang and New Jonang?  When you mention Jonang Standing Council, I'm unclear if you mean that Jonang acknowledges 2 parts ("new" and "old")?  Or is New Jonang just the name for the modern day of Jonang?

And since zhentong view is not shared by Gelukpa tradition (or is it?), isn't there a fundamental difference in emphasis in the lineage teachings?   If so I can see the why there would be concerns for misrepresentation in the "leadership" design at present of the Jonang lineage.   Sorry about maybe just muddling up your very eloquent historical explanation, I seem to have caught the samsaric bug of ignorance...

:headbow:
Ogyen.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 10:23:46 am by 0gyen Chodzom »
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Offline zerwe

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2010, 10:25:31 am »
Dear Tashi, a very informative post. I certainly understand the motivation behind the 'New Jonang' designation. With which lineage do the Dorje Ling centers in NY and GA identify with?
Shaun :namaste:

Offline TashiNyima

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2010, 07:21:11 pm »
Dear Friends

om svasti

The Jonang lineage is not exactly thriving, but it is resurgent in Eastern Tibet, China, Mongolia, and the USA (Dorje Ling in NY and AL; Tashi Choeling in VA). There are various monasteries, nunneries, schools, and other institutions, and there is one Jonang Monastery in Shimla, India. All are affiliated with the 9th Kalkha Dampa and the Jonang Standing Council to some extent, and their view and practice have been strongly influenced by the Gelukpa.

There is a significant difference between the teachings of the Buddha of the Three Times, the Omniscient Dolpopa, and that of the Jonangpas today. The zhentong that is currently espoused is of the type grudgingly accepted by (and acceptable to) moderate Gelukpas like HH the Dalai Lama, and certainly to mainstream Kagyupas and Nyingmapas. It is not, however, Kunkhyen Dolpopa's zhentong. The practices are equally diluted with innumerable accretions from other lineages.

Although we bow in reverence to all Jonangpa, as we do to all sincere Buddhists of every lineage, the New Jonangpa are not affiliated with the Kalkha Dampa or the Jonang Standing Council. The New Jonang consider ourselves an 'abridged transmission' --that is, our view and practices are those of Kunkhyen Dolpopa and Jetsun Taranatha, as they were before the persecution and suppression of the 17th century.

While we seek to have cordial relations with every Buddhist lineage (Tibetan and non-Tibetan), the New Jonang do not seek recognition, support, or legitimation from any officially designated, temporal authorities or their representatives.

We make our stand on the blessings of the Pure Lineage; the Five Treatises of Buddha Maitreya; the teachings of Arya Nagarjuna, Arya Asanga, and Arya Vasubandhu; Kunkhyen Dolpopa's General Commentary on the Doctrine, Mountain Dharma, and The Fourth Council; and the teachings of Jetsun Taranatha --undiluted and uncompromised by timidity or convenience. We dedicate ourselves to the Six-branch Vajrayoga of the Completion Stage and any necessary ancillary practices, without seeking a multitude of  'empowerments' and accumulating an endless repertory of other sadhanas.

Thank you for your questions. They are always welcome.

May the teachings of the Victor flourish!

mangalam

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2010, 08:20:59 pm »
The Jonang lineage is not exactly thriving...
You can say that again! Until a year or two ago I thought it had been completely wiped out. You're the first--and only--Jonangpa I've ever come across.

Quote
...but it is resurgent in Eastern Tibet, China, Mongolia, and the USA (Dorje Ling in NY and AL; Tashi Choeling in VA). There are various monasteries, nunneries, schools, and other institutions, and there is one Jonang Monastery in Shimla, India.
All good news. But you're in Texas, right? Anything going on there?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 08:26:12 pm by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline zerwe

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2010, 09:09:19 pm »
Tashi, is there a Dorje Ling in Alabama? The two I have come across are in Brooklyn, NY and Chamblee (NE Atlanta area), Georgia.
Shaun :namaste:

Offline TashiNyima

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2010, 09:24:20 pm »
Dear Friend

om svasti

There's actually a 5 to 6 thousand Jonangpa monks and nuns in Tibet, China, and Mongolia. Of course, in comparison with other lineages, that is a meager number.

Here in Texas we have two New Jonang Sanghas: a small one in McKinney, the other (smaller still) in Dallas. While a larger group attends teachings with some regularity, about a dozen have taken formal Refuge, and fewer still have taken Bodhisattva Vows. However, numbers are not important. Sincerity and dedication to practice are. I am honored and humbled that i can serve my Teacher in this way.

Regardless of size, we have big plans. Among them, it is my Teacher's wish to "Raise Mount Meru" here in Texas --that is, build a Jonang Stupa. The Raising of Mount Meru has always been associated with the propagation of the Great Middle Way: Kunkhyen Dolpopa built the Great Jonang Stupa in the 14th century, and Jetsun Taranatha renovated it in the 16th century.

Since we have no land, no money, and few resources, we have begun the process very humbly: we simply ask that well-wishers write mantras in blank notebooks, which we will place inside the Stupa when it is built. We want to accumulate millions of mantras for eventual interment. Anyone who wishes to participate is welcome, and i'll be happy to send specific guidelines.

mangalam
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 09:28:43 pm by TashiNyima »

Offline TashiNyima

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2010, 09:26:47 pm »
Tashi, is there a Dorje Ling in Alabama? The two I have come across are in Brooklyn, NY and Chamblee (NE Atlanta area), Georgia.
Shaun :namaste:

Sorry. Yes, Dorje Ling has a chapter in GA, not AL. Although i now live in TX, i'm not that familiar with the Southern US.

mangalam

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2010, 09:53:45 pm »
However, numbers are not important. Sincerity and dedication to practice are. I am honored and humbled that i can serve my Teacher in this way.
I believe that the Shangpa Kagyu had dwindled to one person by early in the 20th century. The practices had been dispersed into the other lineages so they were still available, but as a system practiced from start to finish only one person was doing it. Now, thanks to Kalu R., it is a bit of a deal here in America.

Quote
Regardless of size, we have big plans. Among them, it is my Teacher's wish to "Raise Mount Meru" here in Texas --that is, build a Jonang Stupa. The Raising of Mount Meru has always been associated with the propagation of the Great Middle Way: Kunkhyen Dolpopa built the Great Jonang Stupa in the 14th century, and Jetsun Taranatha renovated it in the 16th century.

Since we have no land, no money, and few resources, we have begun the process very humbly: we simply ask that well-wishers write mantras in blank notebooks, which we will place inside the Stupa when it is built. We want to accumulate millions of mantras for eventual interment. Anyone who wishes to participate is welcome, and i'll be happy to send specific guidelines.
I like your style. I personally believe that the emphasis on building institutions here by the Tibetans (without realizing that institutional religion has a very bad reputation among their prospective congregation) is a huge error on their part. Next is not understanding, or even questioning, why we have rejected our own religions and how that prejudices us towards certain themes or issues (like faith). And last they have no understanding of what it is to believe that there is no ultimate purpose to or meaning in life and that you just have to make the best of it as you can. But that last one is asking too much. They can't even imagine what that would be like.

But that is a digression and tirade. I appreciate your approach of not imposing on people's generosity. :jinsyx:
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 09:55:34 pm by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline humanitas

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2010, 09:56:20 pm »
I'd be happy to know more about the millionsofmantras project.  Please PM me some details.

:headbow:
Ogyen.
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Offline zerwe

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2010, 10:14:07 pm »
Tashi, I second that. I too would like more details on the one million mantras.
Shaun :namaste:

Offline TashiNyima

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2010, 06:00:23 am »
Dear Friends

om svasti

I am deeply moved by your kindness. Thank you!

Many sutras and tantras state that the accumulations of merit and wisdom are perfected if one constructs great images and stupas. It is an exceptional basis of virtue for achieving meditative concentration on the nature of reality.

There is no doubt that anyone who sees, hears about, or touches this stupa will be liberated from suffering, the seed of enlightenment will be planted, and vast benefit for others will arise
.

—Kunkhyen Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen

Kunkhyen Dolpopa, the 4th throne-holder at Jonang, began construction of the Great Stupa That Liberates on Sight in 1329, as a tribute to his master, Yontan Gyatso. Rocks were conveyed from all four of the cardinal directions by hand and by mule. It took over four years to complete. The Omniscient Dolpopa oversaw the construction of the stupa and would build entire sections if he was not satisfied with the work, often dismantling the sections stone-by-stone and meticulously rebuilding them.

At the same time as the stupa was being built, Dolpopa oversaw the translation of the Kalachakra Tantra and the Vimalaprabha or “Stainless Light” commentary by Jonang Lotsawa and Sazang Mati Panchen. During this time, He had the full realization of zhentong, which he kept secret until the stupa was finished, in 1333.

Kunkhyen Dolpopa described the stupa as the raising of Mount Meru, a blessing from the Kalki of Shambhala that enabled his realizations to gush forth like the cosmic oceans. The title of His greatest work, Mountain Dharma: Ocean of Definitive Meaning, is a clear reference to the relationship between the Stupa and the extensive proclamation of the zhentong doctrine. After the Omniscient Dolpopa completed construction of the Great Stupa of Jonang, thousands of yogis would gather around the stupa at the blow of the conch shell to listen to Him teach on the Great Middle Way.

A very powerful mantra practice is to write the ishta (chosen) mantra daily a pre-determined number of times in a good quality blank book. There is no restriction regarding a particular script, as the mantra may be written in any alphabet.

When performing likhita japa (mantra writing), we observe complete silence. We write the mantra clearly in indelible ink, as this makes us more attentive. Mantras may also be printed from templates or carved blocks. On days when we have greater leisure, we can perform more sessions of likhita japa.

Through this simple practice, we can develop great power of concentration. Besides bringing about purity of heart and concentration of mind, mantra-writing gives us control of posture, control of the sense faculties, and fills us with the power of endurance. We quickly attain peace of mind. Prolonged and constant practice will fill us with the qualities invoked by the mantra.

As we amass numerous pages of likhita japa, we can collect these and dedicate them to the welfare of all sentient beings by interring them in a stupa. You can participate in this meritorious activity by writing any number of the following mantras:

namo gurave / namo buddhaya / namo dharmaya / namo sanghaya
Reverence to the Teacher. Reverence to the Buddha. Reverence to the Dharma. Reverence to the Noble Assembly.

om guru-buddha-bodhisattvabhyo namo namah
OM Reverence and service to the Teachers, the Buddhas, and Bodhisattvas.

om vajrasattva hum  
 
100-syllable Vajrasattva mantra  

om ah hum

om mani padme hum

om tare tuttare ture svaha

om ami deva hrih

om svabhava suddha sarva dharma svabhava suddho ‘ham
OM All is pure as it is. I am pure as I am.

tayatha om gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
OM It is thus: Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone perfectly beyond to enlightenment.

namo gurave
Reverence to the Teacher.

kunkhyen jonangpa khyeno
Omniscient Dolpopa, glance at me with mercy.

om ah hum vajra guru padma siddhi hum
Precious Teacher, Indestructible and Undefiled Perfection!

lama khyeno lama khyeno lama konchog sumpo khyeno
My Teacher, embodiment of the Three Jewels, glance at me with mercy.

om svasti – OM All is perfectly established.

eh ma ho – How wonderful!

mangalam bhavantu – May all be happy!  


If your ishta mantra is other than the above, please consult with me, as this list does not contain mantras from traditions other than the Jonang. For example, we would greatly welcome mantra books of nembutsu, in any language, as we would any hand-written sutra.

While mantras written in most formats are appreciated, storage and eventual interment would be greatly facilitated by some measure of uniformity. Blank books published by Moleskin and Rhodia, or any other brand with similar characteristics (preferably without any leather components), are recommended.

On the first page of your blank book, please write:

Reverence to the Gurus, Buddhas, and Bodhisattvas!
May Mount Meru rise again!
May the Ocean of Definitive Meaning flow!
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering!
May all embrace happiness and the causes of happiness!
May all abide in peace, free from self grasping!
May all attain the union of Wisdom and Compassion!

Thank you very much!

mangalam
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 06:56:07 am by TashiNyima »

Offline TashiNyima

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2010, 06:07:34 am »
I like your style. I personally believe that the emphasis on building institutions here by the Tibetans (without realizing that institutional religion has a very bad reputation among their prospective congregation) is a huge error on their part. Next is not understanding, or even questioning, why we have rejected our own religions and how that prejudices us towards certain themes or issues (like faith). And last they have no understanding of what it is to believe that there is no ultimate purpose to or meaning in life and that you just have to make the best of it as you can. But that last one is asking too much. They can't even imagine what that would be like.

But that is a digression and tirade. I appreciate your approach of not imposing on people's generosity. :jinsyx:

Dear Friend

om svasti

Thank you for your kindness. I agree that institution-building, or even the desire for large followings, can be detrimental to the purpose of sharing the Dharma. My Root Teacher counseled prudence and humility.

The Buddha did not come to make us Tibetan, or Indian, or Chinese, or Korean, or Japanese, or European, or American. He came to make us Buddhas.

mangalam

Offline heybai

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2011, 12:44:22 am »
The Buddha did not come to make us Tibetan, or Indian, or Chinese, or Korean, or Japanese, or European, or American. He came to make us Buddhas.

mangalam

Amen.

Offline Vajratantrika

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2012, 03:30:16 pm »

The Jonang lineage is not exactly thriving, but it is resurgent in Eastern Tibet, China, Mongolia, and the USA (Dorje Ling in NY and AL; Tashi Choeling in VA). There are various monasteries, nunneries, schools, and other institutions, and there is one Jonang Monastery in Shimla, India. All are affiliated with the 9th Kalkha Dampa and the Jonang Standing Council to some extent, and their view and practice have been strongly influenced by the Gelukpa.

There is a significant difference between the teachings of the Buddha of the Three Times, the Omniscient Dolpopa, and that of the Jonangpas today. The zhentong that is currently espoused is of the type grudgingly accepted by (and acceptable to) moderate Gelukpas like HH the Dalai Lama, and certainly to mainstream Kagyupas and Nyingmapas. It is not, however, Kunkhyen Dolpopa's zhentong. The practices are equally diluted with innumerable accretions from other lineages.

Ven. Tashi Nyima,

As a Jonangpa who has been attending teachings at Dorje Ling in Atlanta since 2005, including teachings on Zhentong (back in May of 2005) I would respectfully question your comments about the Jonangpas today not following the pristine doctrine of the Omniscient Dolpopa. Your experience may have been different. In any case, I am happy to know of the efforts in Texas with the New Jonang. You and I have actually met in February of 2011 at Dorje Ling in Atlanta. I hope to one day meet again. May the lineage flourish. And may all beings attain Liberation and Enlightenment.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 03:57:00 pm by dharma_bum »
May all sentient beings have happiness and its causes,
May all sentient beings be free of suffering and its causes,
May all sentient beings never be separated from bliss without suffering,
May all sentient beings be in equanimity, free of ignorance, attachment and aversion.

Offline Vajratantrika

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Re: Why 'New Jonang'?
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2013, 01:52:51 pm »
I just want to note here that once I realized Ven. Tashi most likely no longer frequents this forum (I haven't seen any recent posts by him) I decided to contact him directly. I did not want to make a post calling comments into question (however respectfully), without offering a chance for a response. We had a very pleasant exchange and all questions I had about the matter have been cleared up to my satisfaction. I am grateful for the kindness he showed to me in our dialog.
May all sentient beings have happiness and its causes,
May all sentient beings be free of suffering and its causes,
May all sentient beings never be separated from bliss without suffering,
May all sentient beings be in equanimity, free of ignorance, attachment and aversion.

 


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