Author Topic: compassion for holy beings... an oxymoron?  (Read 1391 times)

Offline daka

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
compassion for holy beings... an oxymoron?
« on: September 02, 2012, 02:37:41 am »

compassion for holy beings... an oxymoron?

    A friend and I are unsure about this question. I remember a teacher once saying that developing compassion for a Buddha or holy being is incorrect or inappropriate. Another teacher recently said that...." with regard to emanations we should still act conventionally showing compassion when appropriate". How does one hold pure view of a teacher/guru who appears to you as enlightened and then shows illness/suffering aspects? Looks like an oxymoron to me.....i.e cold ice .... warm fridge.....or maybe snail in a hurry

daka

"....since beginningless time, we have made a big mistake"

Offline Q

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: compassion for holy beings... an oxymoron?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 08:00:18 am »
Why can't a guru show illness to us? He is after all a compassionate Buddha whom has taken form in a human body to teach us the Dharma... the body is the fault, not the Guru. Also there are other aspects or reasons as to why a Guru will manifest illness, for example the students have very heavy broken samaya, or for his students to collect merits by taking care of the Guru, and of course many other reasons. Many times, although a high lama would manifest illness in his human body, you can see that his mind have never waver when it comes to the Dharma.

Offline daka

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: compassion for holy beings... an oxymoron?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 01:03:50 am »
Why can't a guru show illness to us?

Of course a guru can show illness to us for many reasons.  He/she is manifesting in an ordinary world to teach ordinary people and must show an ordinary aspect.  He/she cannot manifest as a glowing light or we humans may not be open to receiving teachings and may try to extinguish this light (maybe it's too bright).  As you say the appearance of the teachers' illness is a manifestation of our karma .

Yes we can say  that this guru generally can show suffering to many levels of being, and some of these may need to have their compassion kindled for various reasons related to their spiritual path;  but for a close disciple, for example who has personal experience of the true nature of this being (enlightened), is it appropriate for him/her to experience and express ordinary compassion?

Teachings I have heard say that if beings with this level of realization have their arm cut off they feel no pain and I have a hard time reconciling this with feeling ordinary compassion (for a being who is not really suffering).


daka
"....since beginningless time, we have made a big mistake"

Offline Caz

  • My I strive for the perfection of enlightenment.
  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2192
    • View Profile
Re: compassion for holy beings... an oxymoron?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 03:49:41 am »
If I remember hearing correctly from Gen-la Khyenrab that holy beings are not a suitable object of compassion for us simply because they are completely free and have no need of compassion.

If a Guru manifests Illness you should definitely respond in a conventionally acceptable manner by caring for them and attending them, Offering long life Puja's and so forth.  :namaste:
http://emodernbuddhism.com/

This eBook Modern Buddhism – The Path of Compassion and Wisdom, in three volumes, is being distributed freely at the request of the author Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The author says: "Through reading and practicing the instructions given in this book, people can solve their daily problems and maintain a happy mind all the time." So that these benefits can pervade the whole world, Geshe Kelsang wishes to give this eBook freely to everyone.

We would like to request you to please respect this precious Dharma book, which functions to free living beings from suffering permanently. If you continually read and practice the advice in this book, eventually your problems caused by anger, attachment and ignorance will cease.

Please enjoy this special gift from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, who dedicates: "May everyone who reads this book experience deep peace of mind, and accomplish the real meaning of human life."

Offline daka

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: compassion for holy beings... an oxymoron?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 09:53:14 am »
Thanks Caz for confirming what I thought I remembered hearing.  I heard this from Venerable Tharchin many years ago.

daka
"....since beginningless time, we have made a big mistake"

Offline Lobster

  • Member
  • Posts: 1341
    • View Profile
Re: compassion for holy beings... an oxymoron?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 11:27:59 pm »
Quote
developing compassion for a Buddha or holy being is incorrect or inappropriate


Normally that is correct.  :namaste:
Just as it is incorrect to wear shoes in a temple. Kiss or snog Buddha statues or eat ones lama (don't ask) . . .  :eek:

However a Rinpoche is allowed to wear shoes in a temple (usually 'slippers')
My teacher as a Pratyekabuddha, who was very reverential on most occasions, did wear his rather strange street shoes in the temple much to the consternation of the resident lama.

The breaking of convention is not for the sake
of sake intoxication
but is Dharma that offers an opportunity for reflection to all participants.  :dharma:

For example I once asked two monks for a drink of water from the bowls they were filling as a temple offering. One was shocked at the suggestion. One realised that I was emanating a simple truth . . . and simply offered me water . . .

Nothing sacred. All sacred.  :pray:

Quote
(i)
With a commitment to accomplish
the highest welfare for all
(Who surpass my most precious ideals)
I will learn to hold them supremely dear

(ii)
Whenever I associate with others, I will learn
to think of myself as the least among all,
And respectfully hold others as being supreme,
From the depth of my heart.

(iii)
In all actions, I will learn to search into my own mind,
And as soon as an afflictive emotion arises,
enabling myself and others,
I will firmly face and avert it.

(iv)
I will cherish beings of bad nature,
And those oppressed by strong negativity’s and sufferings,
As if I had found a precious treasure
Very difficult to find.

(v)
When others, out of jealousy, treat me badly
With abuse, slander and so on,
I will learn to take all loss
And offer the victory to them.

(vi)
When one whom I have benefited with great hope
Unreasonably hurts me very badly,
I will learn to view that person
As an excellent spiritual guide.

(vii)
In short, I will learn to offer to everyone without exception
All help and happiness directly and indirectly,
And secretly take upon myself
All the harms and suffering of others.

(viii)
I will learn to keep all these efforts
Undefiled by the stains of discursive conceptions,
And, by understanding all phenomena to be like illusions,
I will be released


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojong

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal