Author Topic: "Sutta-DE-central" the never ending stories of foolishness  (Read 2619 times)

Offline Hanzze

  • Member
  • Posts: 2077
  • (Johann)
    • View Profile
"Sutta-DE-central" the never ending stories of foolishness
« on: July 04, 2013, 09:40:38 pm »
I am not delighted that I need you to inform you another time. Since I got some clear "expressions" for from the runner of the Sutta decentralizing and making Suttas to common stuff project SuttaCentral:

Quote from: Bhikkhu Sujato
Bhikkhu Sujato

You mentioned about the copyright. Actually, we have a copyright page ready, it is just not uploaded yet. Essentially our policy is this:

1. Ancient texts are in public domain.
2. Anything created by SuttaCentral is released under CC0 (equivalent to public doman).
3. Translations are in accordance with the pre-existing copyright licence, if there is one.

Since there is a list of contributors I also feel the need to make this public. So you are able to inform them (as it might be that they are not aware what happens with their gifts) or to abstain, to give them teachings of the Buddha, since they seem to work against right view and basics like "'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions." and seek refuge in "righteous taken" rather to teach people not to take what is not given.

    “And how is one made pure in three ways by mental action? There is the case where a certain person is not covetous. He does not covet the belongings of others and just takes what is in public domain, thinking, ‘O, that what belongs to others would be mine!’ He bears no ill will and is not corrupt in the resolves of his heart. [He thinks,] ‘May these beings be free from animosity, free from oppression, free from trouble, and may they look after themselves with ease!’ He has right view and is not warped in the way he sees things: ‘There is what is given taken under public domain, what is offered given to public domain, what is sacrificed common possession. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions and no fruits form taking what is under public domain. There is this world & the next world, but who cares, we will not remember. Carpe diem as long there is something left!. There is mother & father but we have not ask them for anything and what they did is there stuff.. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are have maybe been maybe brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.’ This is how one is made pure common in three ways by mental action.”

    — AN 10.176

Note: this is a not allowed modification, but since it might make some irritation visible, I guess the author will have no problem with such a showcase. Bold text is added.

This is the list of "co-workers" and supporter of the "getting Dhamma under Public Domain" undertaking of the Sutta(de)central project:

Bhante Sujato
John Kelly
Bhante Jhanarato
Bhante Nandiya

    Bhikkhu Bodhi
    Bhikkhu Anālayo
    Bhikkhu Pāsādika
    Bhikkhu Ñāṇatusita
    Buddhist Studies Review
    Sāmaṇerī Dhammadinnā
    Bhikkhu Khemacāro
    Bhikkhu Yuttadhammo
    Bhikkhu Jaganātha
    Bhikkhunī Nibbidā
    Bhikkhu Araṇavihārī
    Shravasti Dhammika
    Bhikkhu Ānandajoti
    Marcus Bingenheimer
    Binh Anson
    Alex Genaud
    Charles Muller
    Kumarī Jayawardena
    Buddhist Society of WA
    Buddhist Library (Sydney)
    John Nishinaga
    Amaradasa Liyanagamage

So please inform them, and/or stay away from them, if they even don't understand what they are doing.
Remakable is that most of them are also Dhamma seller, dealer or people who make a livelihood out of translation and teaching Dhamma... or simply social workers and slaves. Effect has its cause.

Note! That some are listed here, does not really mean that they are on the wrong path or reject Buddhas teachings, but they are involved and maybe not aware of it.


Offline Hanzze

  • Member
  • Posts: 2077
  • (Johann)
    • View Profile
Re: "Sutta-DE-central" the never ending stories of foolishness
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2013, 06:22:48 am »
Hi Johann,

I’m not sure what your problem here is. “Public Domain” just means that anyone can use it for anything, there is no control or ownership. CC0 is an attempt to come as close to Public Domain as current laws allow.

Dear Bhikkhu Sujato,

Yes, I am sure that you don’t understand the problem. People do not understand the different between given and taken. There are agreements within ordinary people (hunters and collectors) how to share the taken from common resources and of cause they need a field of common hunting ground. But in regard to right view, next to what is taken and thrown away , there are gifts, there is what is scarified.

If you just take form common hunting ground, of course you might be only able to share for the common hunting grounds. If you have received a gift (Note: not everybody as capable to receive a gift), that you will feel responsible for it, take care of it, and share as good possible if you like to share.
So if you work is dedicated for the common possession, fine. But if you throw all the valued things in the steam of common sense and common use, then you will not receive much valued gifts in the future.

I don’t know what should be the problem, if you put your work under your “domain” and share it as a gift and not declare it as something free to take.
The teachings of the Buddha are at least in the “domain” of the Sangha (8 pairs) and you should think twice, if you can act with that possession in this way. If your work is just a worldly work, directed to the world, that everything might be fine and it will stay and lead further in the world.

If you consciously dedicate your work for the noble Sangha, your mind directed to Nibbana and gratitude for your parents, ancestor, teachers and spiritual teachers as well as object of dedication, your work would be according what you should work for as a Bhikkhu and it would be work and gifts which are acceptable by people who abstain from what is not given. You could even, step by step, clean dirty things, so that a real literary SuttaCentral might be reestablished.

You should request (which you can not do in direction of everybody, specially lay people) the use, receive it consciously and dedicate it proper.

How can you ever teach basics to laypeople, if you do not value basic things for your self?

It would be not easy to recollect the teachings in a righteous way but it is the not easy that makes a person and an undertaking a special.

Of course, that all does not mean that we will forget about the hungry ghost and of course everything is dedicated for them as well. Those who have given in previous existences will be able to nourish on it as well.

Bhikkhu! Receive consciously and share and give consciously with whom you are ever allowed!! These are furthermore not all!

One fault causes 100 other faults and the stream will not end till we don’t abstain from the fault at first place.

I would really be happy to be able to dedicate all my work for SuttaCentral if it would be not clearly outside the frame of the Sangha and clearly dedicated in direction of the world and not Nibbana.

If you give,
give with mudita dedicated for Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha and the direction Nibbana
give with karuna dedicated for those who do not have found refugee in the 3 gems yet
give with metta dedicated for those not capable to receive your gift
give with upekkha dedicated for those who even develop ill will out of your gift.

It is not possible to make a dirty stream clear with a little cup of clear water, but it is possible to scoop, with patient and step by step, some clean water on the fordable and silent places of a dirty stream.

And if people recognize your good work, they will even share there stored water bottles, thinking: “This righteous acting person with understanding the basics of right view, is worthy to receive gifts”, let us dedicate it for the Sangha and let us assume him as a part of them.

Stay on earth and leave stupid ideas of common rights and equality.

Let me know as soon as Stutta – de – central has grown to SuttaCentral, has an owner and a worthy object to dedicate gifts. It would be really outstanding to find such in our now day wired grown world. “You can!…”


Maybe useful for one and the other, to understand the basics. I once wrote some words and they have been generously translated by Moritz R. into English as well: “Labour makes (you) free!?” Giving, taking and the “new” world. May you be able to receive this gift even it is not the cream but still can nourish you well.

Don’t forget after you have done some work the traditional dedication, and if it does not fit to your work, don’t share it.

Puññassidāni katassa
Yānaññāni katāni me
Tesañca bhāgino hontu

May all beings — without limit, without end —
have a share in the merit just now made,
and in whatever other merit I have made.

Ye piyā guṇavantā ca
Mayhaṃ mātā-pitādayo
Diṭṭhā me cāpyadiṭṭhā vā
Aññe majjhatta-verino;

Those who are dear & kind to me —
beginning with my mother & father —
whom I have seen or never seen;
and others, neutral or hostile;

Sattā tiṭṭhanti lokasmiṃ
Te-bhummā catu-yonikā
Saṃsarantā bhavābhave:

beings established in the cosmos —
the three realms, the four modes of birth,
with five, one, or four aggregates —
wandering on from realm to realm:

Ñātaṃ ye pattidānam-me
Anumodantu te sayaṃ
Ye cimaṃ nappajānanti
Devā tesaṃ nivedayuṃ.

If they know of my dedication of merit,
may they themselves rejoice,
And if they do not know,
may the devas inform them.

Mayā dinnāna-puññānaṃ
Sabbe sattā sadā hontu
Averā sukha-jīvino

By reason of their rejoicing
in my gift of merit,
may all beings always live happily,
free from animosity.

Khemappadañca pappontu
Tesāsā sijjhataṃ subhā.

May they attain the Serene State,
and their radiant hopes be fulfilled.

(sorry for the limited display, but the BBC codes do not work proper)

Offline namumahaparinirvanasvaha

  • Member
  • Posts: 769
    • View Profile
Re: "Sutta-DE-central" the never ending stories of foolishness
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2013, 12:38:32 pm »
let me get this straight......are you actually complaining about people giving away their translations for free?

honestly I can understand your point in that entire post (I also don't think the Bhikkshu even understood the point you were trying to make)

can you write in like 3 sentences exactly what your position is.

Offline namumahaparinirvanasvaha

  • Member
  • Posts: 769
    • View Profile
Re: "Sutta-DE-central" the never ending stories of foolishness
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2013, 02:59:07 pm »
let me get this straight......are you actually complaining about people giving away their translations for free?

honestly I cannot understand your point in that entire post (I also don't think the Bhikkshu even understood the point you were trying to make)

can you write in like 3 sentences exactly what your position is.


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal