Author Topic: Gaining merits on internet  (Read 4159 times)

Offline Hanzze

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Gaining merits on internet
« on: November 13, 2011, 09:40:39 pm »
Coming from the "How to approach disagreements - the Buddha's guidelines" topic there was the thought back to the deeper reason of discussions generally, as they are a tricky soil for many unwholesome thoughts and deeds and so on the thought on the two wholesome actions (among the 10 kusala deeds). Both deeds have to do with discussion and involvement in distribute Dharma/Dhamma.

here a short explaining from Abhidhamma In Daily Life - by Ashin Janakabhivamsa

Quote
8. Dhammasavana (Listening To The Dhamma)

Dhammasavana means listening to the Dhamma of the Enlightened One. The fivse benefits of dhammasavana are (a) getting fresh knowledge; (b) understanding known facts more clearly; (c) resolving of skepticism and doubt (d) acquiring right belief and (e) enhancing your wisdom and faith.

False Method of Listening to Dhamma

Listening to the Dhamma with a view to getting the five benefits is true dhammasavana. Some attend Dhamma discourses because they are friendly with the preacher; some for the jokes and humorous anecdotes; some for the fear of accusation as being too lazy; some to access the ability of the preacher. One can get no benefit from listening to the Dhamma with such ignoble intentions. Once a China man was crossing a river in a rowboat when the boatman warned him that the boat leaked a bit. The China man thought that this meant the water from inside the boat leaked and oozed into the river. So there were no cause worry. In a while, he noticed the seat of his pants becoming wet. He was alarmed and exclaimed, "This boat does not leak; it only lets in water!" The true aim of listening to the Dhamma is to let our evil thoughts to ooze out. We should be very careful lest we let in more evil into our consciousness.

The Benefits of Reading

Today, there are many books which can give us wisdom and knowledge. In Myanmar, being a Buddhist country, hundreds of Buddhist treatises appear in bookstands. By reading these books you get the same benefit as listening to the Dhamma. Therefore reading such books is far more advantageous than listening to contemporary discourses. Even if you cannot read, you can ask someone to read aloud for you. This amounts to listening to the Dhamma.

Note:

I would recommend Jinattha Pakasani, Buddhavamsa, Five-hundred and Fifty Jatakas, Samvega Vatthu Dipani and other treatises written by famous learned monks as reading matter for your benefit.


9. Dhamma Desana (Preaching Dhamma)

Dhamma desana means preaching the Dhamma. If done with sincerity and magnanimity, preaching the Dhamma excels all other forms of Dana. The Buddha himself said, "Sabbha Danam dhammaDanam jinati - Preaching the Dhamma is the highest charity". To really achieve true dhamma desana kusala (good deed of preaching the Dhamma), the preacher must not expect gifts, offertories, fame of false pride. If so, the greed (lobha) for such material gain contaminates and diminishes the merits gained from preaching. Then the preacher will be like a foolish man who exchanged a hundred-thousand worth of sandalwood with a pitcher of stale molasses.

Maxim: As the foolish man traded a hundred-thousand worth of sandalwood with some stale molasses; the ignoble preacher teachers the priceless Dhamma in exchange for some petty material gain.

Qualification of a Preacher

A qualified preacher is no ordinary orator. He possess a clear and forceful voice; he must have ability to make others understand him clearly. So a preacher is hard to find. Although there are one thousand cows in a ranch, only one of them will bear forth a flawless bull-calf. Likewise thousands of mothers fail to give birth to a great preacher. A great preacher is indeed a rarity.

The Disadvantage Of Improper Intonation

Qualified teacher should be aware of their virtuous kamma of their past lives; when reciting the Noble Dhamma taught by the Buddha, the preacher must orate with a clear, manly voice. He must not willfully attempt to make his voice pleasant by means of improper accent, stress, intonation or elocution.

The Buddha himself pointed out the disadvantages of improper manipulation of speech sounds, making them sweet, to resemble singing while preaching the Dhamma. They are: (a) one become lustful of one's own voice; (b) the audience find lustful pleasure in the preacher's voice; (c) the preacher is blamed for singing like lay persons; (d) the preacher loses concentration while exerting oneself to produce sweet voice (e) the next generation of monks will emulate this indecent style.

Nowadays, these disadvantages can be experienced in many occasions. The younger monks are already following the wrong examples set by the indecent preachers. The pious are seldom present at discourses conducted by such bogus preachers. Those who attend the lectures only perfunctorily do not pay attention to the discourses. The educated class, through desirous of listening to the Dhamma, feel ashamed to be present at the lecture of such vulgar preachers.

It is imperative should have enough decency not to make melodies out of the priceless Dhamma. It is shameful mode of oration.

Simple Ways of Preaching

Dhamma preaching means not only the discourses given to a large audience in a lecture hall. Simple discussion on the Dhamma among two or three persons also is Dhamma desana, provided the preacher does not hope for any gifts or offertories. Giving admonition to devotees, young and old, teaching academic subjects, handicraft or technology of innocent nature, reading out the teachings of Buddha, all qualify as Dhamma desana. Bhikkhus today should train themselves to be good preachers; in addition they should study public speaking, proper reading and writing.


*smile*

Offline ground

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2011, 10:18:33 pm »
What are "merits"?

Knowledges about.
Insights.
Abandonments.

Kind regards
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 10:20:26 pm by TMingyur. »

Offline Hanzze

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2011, 10:54:51 pm »
For sure this kinds of thoughts arising is very popular, but some might be still involved in worldly life so the simple ones are very important to have a little more kusala acts then the usually akusala. *smile*

Kusala acts are the very first solid step on the path to gain more knowledge, insight and sooner or later also real abandonment. We can start with little developed saddha our of right "believe".
Actually it's a wheel we start to turn on.

*smile*

Offline ground

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2011, 11:09:59 pm »
In other words "merits" is nothing but

Quote
1. the full understanding of the known (nataprinna)

2. full understanding by scrutinization (tiranaparinna)

3. fully understanding as abandonment

S. 354 n. 36 und S. 1052 n. 42 (SN, B. Bodhi)

as to 1. It is the initial knowledge (initial merit) initially aquired through learning terms and terminology and validly relating these terms and terminology to one's own experience
as to 2. It is the further knowledge (further merit) aquired through analysis in one's own sphere
as to 3. It is the culmination of knowledge (highest merit) after having got to know initial merit and further merit which leads to letting go of everything, letting go of all strivings, letting go of wanting to change anything, letting go of all wanting gains, letting go of all motivations, letting go of merits, letting go of verbal dhamma teachings.



What has this to do with the internet?
Since the internet is a source of terminological knowledge it may support the gain of initial knowledge. But "support" here means just "support" because terminological knowledge as such can never lead to accomplishing of what is called "initial knowledge" above.
Why is this?
Because initial knowledge necessarily includes validly relating gained terminological knowledge to one's own experience.


Kind regards

« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 11:12:58 pm by TMingyur. »

Offline Hanzze

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2011, 11:41:55 pm »
So whats your use of it? I mean there are a lot of unwholesome side effects. They even touch the transcendental *smile* even they might think to stand above.

Without sense there will be no gaining of anything. Even not point 1. So its a step into the first level, and improvement and practice at the 2. step and a mirror that the 3. step is not reached jet. *smile*

Offline ground

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2011, 11:47:06 pm »
... there will be no gaining of anything.
This actually is the "truth" expressed in conventional language which implies "full understanding as abandonment".
But as such (i.e. as linguistic expression) it is mere words and has the potential of upsetting those who are attached to the idea of "gaining merits".


Kind regards
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 11:50:59 pm by TMingyur. »

Offline Hanzze

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2011, 11:52:40 pm »
Actually I think its the opposite *smile*, but how ever feelings are always based on person(al) ideas. *smile*

Offline ground

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2011, 11:59:15 pm »
Actually I think its the opposite *smile*,
This will be abandoned when fully understanding.

but how ever feelings are always based on person(al) ideas. *smile*
View of "person" and identification or appropriation of "feeling" is incompatible with "full understanding as abandonment". "To get there" (mere linguistic expression since in actuality there is no "getting there" as there is no "gaining merits") "initial knowledge" and "further knowledge" are required.


Kind regards

Offline Hanzze

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2011, 12:05:41 am »
Thought of fully understanding, there is a lot of brain gymnastic toward the very first steps and the OP isn't it? *smile* Well I think its natural that there need to be much complicated thoughts to keep subliminal rejection at "peace".

Offline ground

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2011, 12:17:25 am »
Thought of fully understanding, there is a lot of brain gymnastic toward the very first steps
"Brain gynmastics" does not mean "initial understanding".
Why?
Because having completed "Brain gynmastics" there remains still to relate the conceptually clear knowledge to one's own experience. Only then can it be called "initial knowledge"

Well I think its natural that there need to be much complicated thoughts to keep subliminal rejection at "peace".
What is rejection?

If desire for affirmation (which is due to attachment) is not satisfied. Can this be validly called "rejection"?

No it cannot be called rejection.

However the one who desires affirmation due to attachment will feel this to be rejection.

Why is this?

It is the consequence of the nature of attachment ...


Kind regards

Offline Hanzze

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2011, 12:30:58 am »
So what about somebody who is simply not aware? *smile* (we have to walk to picture 2 till 9 first)

If it (rejection) is sublime presents its just a mass of unwholesome deeds as we use Dhamma discussions just as pressure-relief valve unaware. *smile*

So what could the intention beside this three (Dhammasavana, Dhamma Desana, any form of unwholesome attachment - out of wrong view) then be?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 12:34:19 am by Hanzze »

Offline ground

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 12:49:02 am »
So what about somebody who is simply not aware? *smile* (we have to walk to picture 2 till 9 first)

If it (rejection) is sublime presents its just a mass of unwholesome deeds as we use Dhamma discussions just as pressure-relief valve unaware. *smile*


What you assert in the context of referring to "we" may be valid in the context of "you", i.e. in your own context.


So what could the intention beside this three (Dhammasavana, Dhamma Desana, any form of unwholesome attachment - out of wrong view) then be?


Could you rephrase this to make clear what you are asking? Your sentence structure does not allow me to understand your question.

Kind regards
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 12:52:42 am by TMingyur. »

Offline Hanzze

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 01:13:02 am »
Quote
What you assert in the context of referring to "we" may be valid in the context of "you", i.e. in your own context.
Like always, no need to be attached by the person and pick out what every is useful inside of "we" (plural) even not being attached at all (out of being not aware - ignorant or full understanding, is always a possibility) *smile* Otherwise it gives rise to karma, but also this is "natural".

Quote
Could you rephrase this to make clear what you are asking? Your sentence structure does not allow me to understand your question.
Your posts point like often on transcendent (higher) levels of attainments (incl. its affection on the other path factors), where Dana (after having letting go fulfilled and abstaining from additional taking further on is penetrated) is no more necessary. Hence there is still the presents and involving in Dhamma discussions. You pointed out that sublime rejection might be also just a refection of my own intentions. So I would like to ask you what beside Dhammasavana, Dhamma Desana and any form of unwholesome attachment - out of wrong view, could be the intention to be still involved in Dharma discussions? *smile*


Offline ground

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2011, 01:32:35 am »
Quote
Could you rephrase this to make clear what you are asking? Your sentence structure does not allow me to understand your question.
Your posts point like often on transcendent (higher) levels of attainments (incl. its affection on the other path factors), where Dana (after having letting go fulfilled and abstaining from additional taking further on is penetrated) is no more necessary.
This seem to be a misperception of yours. The posts are dhamma expressions by means of language. Not more and not less. As linguistic expressions there is nothing "transcendent", i.e. non-wordly, about them.
Also how could mere linguistic expressions point to attainments? In what direction or to where should these be able to point?

Hence there is still the presents and involving in Dhamma discussions. You pointed out that sublime rejection might be also just a refection of my own intentions. So I would like to ask you what beside Dhammasavana, Dhamma Desana and any form of unwholesome attachment - out of wrong view, could be the intention to be still involved in Dharma discussions? *smile*
It appears as if you are constantly confusing dhamma expressions by means of language with assertions about personal attainments or personal faults although you yourself are writing just above:
Like always, no need to be attached by the person

So what's the point?


Kind regards


Offline Hanzze

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Re: Gaining merits on internet
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2011, 01:50:16 am »
So what about just excepting duality for the time of posting and return to the OP? *smile* Should be no problem with so much understanding.

So whats the intention of being involved in Dharma discussions beside making Dana (letting go of with wholesome side effects)?

 


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