Author Topic: Illusory peace  (Read 4585 times)

Offline ground

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2011, 04:47:05 am »
What about the defuse/indifferent? Actually that is the red line in this tread. *smile*
The red line is right view with effluents of which there are many kinds for many types of persons and right view without effluents.


Therefor aware of the danger of SIDS Buddha gave a couple of advices how, to whom and in which kind to recite suttas. One important point was, not to split parts out of it.
There haven't been split parts out of it. Your preferred right view with effluents has been confronted with others, just so. You perceived this as nihilism and delusion ... perhaps out of frustration of not getting your views affirmed.

There are teachings for deer, sheep and goats on the one hand and there is the lion's roar on the other hand. Deer, sheep and goats do not like the lion's roar. :teehee:


It was not proposed to tam the effort on develop virtue and right livelihood till its perfection step by step. Maybe that sutta was directed to people having a good amount of perfection developed already in it.
Virtue virtue. What is virtue? If you abandon all sense bases, consciousnesses, and their objects non-virtue is impossible. Only if you are attached to the idea of virtue being positive gain and accumulated merit you will shrink back from this kind of "all-inclusive" renunciation and perceive it to be nihilism or delusion.

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Offline Hanzze

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2011, 05:03:04 am »
Puhh... *smile* that could last long, I am not sure if its time for karuna or mudita.



with metta
*smile*

Offline ground

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2011, 05:07:15 am »
... I am not sure if its time for karuna or mudita.

That depends on how you feel. If you get experienced with practice you will learn what kind of these tools to apply in what kind of agitated mind state.

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Offline Hanzze

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2011, 05:40:38 am »
So you think its a matter of feeling? *smile* Online maybe more a matter of mind reading, to have proper thought.

If somebody had really determined such realization, mudita would be proper. If one thinks he had determined such realization, karuna would be very proper.

We can not fail much in having thought of metta. *smile*

Offline ground

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2011, 05:55:30 am »
So you think its a matter of feeling? *smile*
"How you feel" is common language. The meaning of vedana was not indended.

The kind of agitation that disturbs the mind is decisive. But that discernment is already beyond the reach of ordinary people that identify themselves with all states.


Online maybe more a matter of mind reading, to have proper thought.
You do not have to be online to observe your mind.


We can not fail much in having thought of metta. *smile*
Or just let go of thoughts and feelings and perceptions... as an alternative :wink1:

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Offline Hanzze

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2011, 06:17:08 am »
Well having reached real equanimity one would not easily approach such discussions, or would he/she? Still much to train its very risky to leave the eightfold path on and on.

(remark: Maybe you can mark sentences in different colors. Maybe white for transcendent wisdom, orange when using the language for people on the way to the stream or on it, and black for common language) *smile*

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Or just let go of thoughts and feelings and perceptions... as an alternative
Sometimes letting go can pretty misunderstood with ignoring or push of. I am not sure if it is the right time, so better still observe what comes and goes. 

Offline ground

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2011, 06:31:44 am »
Well having reached real equanimity one would not easily approach such discussions, or would he/she?
Not knowing "real equanimity" I cannot answer. Perhaps now you are confusing "equanimity" and "indifference"?


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Or just let go of thoughts and feelings and perceptions... as an alternative
Sometimes letting go can pretty misunderstood with ignoring or push of.
Sometimes it may be like this and at other times it may be like that. So it looks as if we agree :teehee:

Offline Hanzze

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2011, 06:42:39 am »
You are a terrible mirror. (I tell you a secret: some weeks ago I got a alms bowl as a present, the most valuable present ever) *smile* Let me know if you reach the right level sooner, I would be honored if you accept a very needed present at this point.

Offline ground

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2011, 06:50:19 am »
You are a terrible mirror.
Hey a mirror just reflects what comes and goes ... unmoved, nothing terrible :wink1:

(I tell you a secret: some weeks ago I got a alms bowl as a present, the most valuable present ever) *smile*
Did you make use of it in the appropriate manner already?


Let me know if you reach the right level sooner, I would be honored if you accept a very needed present at this point.
Who knows ...

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Offline Hanzze

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2011, 07:14:42 am »
Terrible does not mean that it is not useful, actually it always useful to have good mirrors. Stress just comes, if we see them not as mirrors. *smile*

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Did you make use of it in the appropriate manner already?
Still to much fear of stones falling down my head, when I think on all the terrible unwholesome acting's in the last years. *smile* Seriously: Still have some Bodhisattva around so the alms bowl is still not in use, that's why I would honored offer it if your time approaches sooner then mine.

Offline ground

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2011, 07:27:10 am »
There is no ordination that does not depend on a specific tradition. So I guess I have to emulate the way of a (lay) paccekabodhisattva  for the time being ... which means "until death" :wink1:

Offline Hanzze

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2011, 07:36:22 am »
I am not sure if the Buddha told to have a tradition. *smile* What about a green robe or blue?

Offline ground

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2011, 07:37:59 am »
What about a green robe or blue?

What's that?

Offline Hanzze

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2011, 08:08:28 am »
Maybe a alternative for tradition traumatized. *smile* It could maybe give some level of illusory peace.  Holly molly to find back to the topic is sometimes like:

Poking a Red Ants' Nest

Sensuality is like taking a stick and using it to poke a big red ants' nest. The more we poke it, the more the red ants come falling on us, onto our face, into our eyes, stinging our ears and eyes. But we don't see the drawbacks of what we're doing. It's all good as far as we can see. Understand that if you don't see the drawbacks of these things you'll never work your way free of them.


 :wink1: (can you see that blink? You have contagioned me with this right view problem) *smile*

Offline ground

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Re: Illusory peace
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2011, 09:31:42 am »
Maybe a alternative for tradition traumatized. *smile*


I have seen it directly in a vision that traditions misrepresent the dhamma and lead their followers astray. They all are selling "illusory peace" but they are not aware of it. It stroke me like a flash. It was a horrible and sudden experience. Terror. Following in the aftermath of a few uposathas. But it strenghtened my faith in the Buddha's teaching and conviction that the only way is this:
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... wander alone like a rhinoceros.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.1.03.than.html



That does not mean that one cannot make liberative use of the teachings of traditions because one can. But one must not get trapped.


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1. I heard thus. At one time the Blessed One lived in the monastery offered by Anàthapiõóika in Jeta's grove in Sàvatthi. The Blessed One addressed the monks from there.

2. Monks, when I was seeking enlightenment it occurred to me what is the satisfaction of forms, their danger and the escape from forms?

3. What is the satisfaction of sounds, their danger and the escape from sounds?

What is the satisfaction of scents, their danger and the escape from scents?

What is the satisfaction of tastes, their danger and the escape from tastes?

What is the satisfaction of bodily contacts, their danger and the escape from bodily contacts?

What is the satisfaction of ideas, their danger and the escape from ideas?


6. Monks, it occurred to me, whatever pleasantness and pleasure arises on account of forms is its satisfaction. That forms are impermanent, unpleasant and subject to change, is the danger of forms. The taming of interest and greed for forms and dispelling interest and greed for them is the escape from forms. Repeat for sounds and scents.

7. Monks, whatever pleasantness and pleasure arises on account of tastes is its satisfaction, tastes are impermanent, unpleasant and subject to change, is the danger of tastes. Taming interest and greed for tastes and dispelling interest and greed for tastes is the escape from them, whatever pleasantness and pleasure  re  bodily. contacts  re 

8. Whatever pleasantness and pleasure arises on account of ideas is its satisfaction. Ideas are impermanent, unpleasant and subject to change, is the danger of ideas. Taming interest and greed for ideas and dispelling interest and greed for them is the escape from ideas.


9. Monks, until I realized the satisfaction as the satisfaction, the danger as the danger and the escape as escape, of these six external spheres, I did not acknowledge my rightful, noble enlightenment to the world together with the gods Maras, Brahmas and the community of recluses and Brahmins.

10. Monks, when I realized the satisfaction as the satisfaction, the danger as the danger and the escape as escape, of these six external spheres, I declared my rightful noble enlightenment to the world together with the gods Maras, Brahmas and the Community of recluses and Brahmins.

11. Then knowledge and insight arose to me the release of my mind became steadfast. This is my last birth I will not be born again.


http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/3Samyutta-Nikaya/Samyutta4/34-Salayatana-Samyutta/02-Yamakavaggo-e.html



Kind regards
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 10:03:50 am by TMingyur. »

 


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