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Author Topic: When will enlightenment happen?  (Read 4484 times)

Offline doubledragon

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2014, 09:00:26 am »
Thank you, Ron and Dharmakara for your...well, enlightening answers!  :namaste:
There's a lot of homework for me to do before I can attain the "luminous mind," but I enjoy the landscape as I walk.
As Rainer Maria Rilke so nicely put it, I bask in the question until I can get closer to the answer.
Sometimes in the middle of samsara we have glimpses into more enlightened versions of ourselves. My idea is, if living according to the Noble Eightfold Path can help render my life and those of others more fulfilled, that's enough for me. At least until I can grow into the bigger concept.

Offline andyebarnes67

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2014, 01:24:53 pm »
We all speak of enlightenment 'happening' or as something 'I get, achieve, reach' etc.
I wonder if we do ourselves a dis-service when we think in this way.
As 'enlightenment', 'awareness', 'nirvana', whichever label we give it, must by nature, be devoid of any concept of self or any other conditioned 'it', then enlightenment can't actually happen at all, or be got, foound, reached etc.
Perhaps we would do better to confine ourselves to the idea of lifting the veil of ignorance and the false sense of self and leave it at that, as any concept of what there is once this is achieved has to be faulty, since all concepts are a result of a conditioned mind and so cannot encompass that which we labal 'enlightenment'.
Metta

Andy Barnes
My comments are by nature, subjective interpretations from my mind. As such, they are never wrong, They are as they are. They are never right, They are as they are.

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2014, 02:22:59 pm »
Yes, that's an excellent description --- lifting the veil of ignorance and the false sense of self  :namaste:

Offline NepalianBuddhist

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2014, 03:59:13 pm »
This Saturday at 4 o clock.  :wink1:

Offline Madelyn

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2014, 03:17:33 am »
How serious is our commitment? Are we hobby, part time or partially Buddhist?  <3


I am definitely a 'partial' or even 'hobby' Buddhist, and quite comfortable with that. Any teaching directly contradicted by scientific evidence is not for me (I was brought up by strict atheists, embracing a non-quantitative scientific field would be considered hippy nonsense in my parents' house) but more importantly, I don't consider myself to be on a journey that must lead to enlightenment.

I'm on a journey *toward* enlightenment, but the destination, and whether  or not it is reached, is unimportant to me. The journey is the point, to me. If it helps me live a life of kindness and happiness, without a single epiphany, that, to me, is still success.

I know this makes me like the annoying bi-curious girl at a gay bar, but I'm very honest about it!


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Offline appas

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2016, 07:28:58 am »
Enlightenment is a thought pattern only. It is useful if, for example, trying to come up with the answer for "what separates the Buddha from ordinary people?". But "the Buddha does not regard anyone as an ordinary person. That is why he
can speak of them as ordinary persons" (Diamond Sutra).

I think the Heart Sutra says it best: there is emptiness,
Quote
No suffering, no origination,
no stopping, no path, no cognition,
also no attainment with nothing to attain.

And, it's perfectly in-your-face in the Diamond Sutra:
Quote
In fact, there does not exist any so-called
highest, most fulfilled, and awakened mind that the Buddha attains.
And,
Quote
Subhuti again asked, "Blessed lord, when you attained complete Enlightenment, did you feel in
your mind that nothing had been acquired?"
The Buddha replied, "That is it exactly, Subhuti. When I attained total Enlightenment, I did
not feel, as the mind feels, any arbitrary conception of spiritual truth, not even the slightest. Even the words 'total Enlightenment' are merely words, they are used merely as
a figure of speech.”

So, don't fret about "the end goal", reaching or attaining something.

Offline appas

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2016, 08:02:05 am »
oops
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 08:05:25 am by appas »

Offline appas

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2016, 08:02:29 am »
So, it appears that there is a prerequisite to enlightenment, which requires the defeat of aging, disease, and death.  I don't even think "Sakyamuni Buddha" go around that road block, at least, not according to the historical stories, documenting his parinibbana.

But the Buddha speaks of nibbana as "the deathless", and parinibbana is non-regressive nibbana: once gained, never lost (although there is truly nothing to be gained!).

The pertinent question, what did Siddhartha or the Bodhisattva actually awaken to by which he became 'Buddha', awakened?

Your question, in the words of a disciple in the Diamond Sutra:
Quote
Subhuti again asked, "Blessed lord, when you attained complete Enlightenment, did you feel in
your mind that nothing had been acquired?"
The Buddha replied, "That is it exactly, Subhuti. When I attained total Enlightenment, I did
not feel, as the mind feels, any arbitrary conception of spiritual truth, not even the
 slightest. Even the words 'total Enlightenment' are merely words, they are used merely as
a figure of speech.”

Offline appas

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2016, 08:08:10 am »
As for "reaching enlightenment" or "seeking enlightenment" as a process of taming the mind, I like the Parables of the Ox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bulls

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2016, 04:48:51 am »

As 'enlightenment', 'awareness', 'nirvana', whichever label we give it, must by nature, be devoid of any concept of self or any other conditioned 'it', then enlightenment can't actually happen at all, or be got, foound, reached etc.
Perhaps we would do better to confine ourselves to the idea of lifting the veil of ignorance and the false sense of self and leave it at that, as any concept of what there is once this is achieved has to be faulty, since all concepts are a result of a conditioned mind and so cannot encompass that which we labal 'enlightenment'.
It's all a matter of semantics. When you lift the veil of ignorance and false sense of self, it will hit you like a freight train. Nothing has happened, yet everything has happened. That's why it is so difficult to put into words. Words cannot encompass that which is enlightenment, but we have to use some kind of label.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline BlackLooter

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2017, 06:10:19 am »
Enlightenment is a subject or object like anything else..if you are initiated you can always just attempt to sort the enlightenment and then stave off the infection..or otherwise encourage it to grow..in a way that you would find audible..or otherwise comfortable with..so enlightenment is like a shower of gold..which is transmuting in and out of your behaviour..and is connected to time..which is an amp of sorts..or otherwise

likewise a sherlock notion..is to put enlightenment in the very container it belongs..and then come to terms with it here and there..or
otherwise hereafter..or otherwise now? enlightenment can go with you everywhere ..but beware it is as delicate as light..
All the Girls and Spacemen will have a monkey on my back before I Attack, I do Shaolin, and Wing From Gui..the meaning of life is backwards and so are you!

Offline Solodris

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Re: When will enlightenment happen?
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2017, 07:40:30 am »
Enlightenment is the realization of The Four Noble Truths that results in pure insight to where your last becoming is The Noble Eightfold Path. This manifestation can only occur by dedicated practice from available Buddhist resources.

 


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