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Pure Land / Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Last post by Dharma Flower on September 13, 2019, 11:35:15 am »
It’s often said the celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas of Mahayana Buddhism are symbolic, rather than literal beings. What do we mean by ‘symbolic’ and what do they symbolize? Here is a definition of ‘symbol’:

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A thing that represents or stands for something else, especially a material object representing something abstract.
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/symbol


There are different terms for Ultimate Truth in Buddhism, including Dharmakaya (Dharma-body) and Sunyata (emptiness). All material things are empty of separate existence, and Enlightenment is the only enduring reality.

In the words of the Heart Sutra, “Form is emptiness and emptiness is form.” The Ultimate Truth of emptiness is abstract and, therefore, must be depicted in form for unenlightened beings like ourselves to perceive It.

Celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas like Amitabha and Avalokitesvara serve as our window for seeing into Dharma-body, the reality of Enlightenment itself, regardless of whether they literally walked the earth:

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People may say that the Bodhisattvas in Buddhist scripture do not have a historical reality. We cannot say what day they were born and what day they died. But we do not need a historical reality… A historian could never take away my faith in Avalokiteshvara, because I know very clearly that love is something real, manifesting itself in many different forms. - Thich Nhat Hanh


Since both truths are mutually reflexive, the Ultimate Truth of emptiness is not superior nor preferable to the relative truth of celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas:

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The highest truth (paramarthasatya) is beyond words or description, i.e. beyond the reach of conceptual understanding and yet it was presented by the Buddha Shakyamuni as his teaching so that our conceptual understanding could grasp it. It is in this sense that the teaching is regarded as an ‘expedient means’ (upaya), often likened to a finger pointing to the moon. What is crucial about this metaphor is that the finger and the moon are mutually reflexive. Without the finger, the moon would not be known. Without the moon, there would be no need for the finger pointing to it.
http://www.nembutsu.info/tokusuny.htm
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Meditation and Self-Reflection Practices / Re: WHAT IS THE ANTIDOTE TO RESENTMENT?
« Last post by Chaz on September 05, 2019, 09:47:43 am »
so to tone it out and down, and by that up: how do you correct the views of people who hold "right view" that is just wrong, in the sense of actual real world problems?

You can't.  People will hold the views they hold.  Not much you can do.

but what does that have to do with resentment?
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Meditation and Self-Reflection Practices / Re: WHAT IS THE ANTIDOTE TO RESENTMENT?
« Last post by loopix on September 05, 2019, 03:50:26 am »
thank you!  :headbow:
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Meditation and Self-Reflection Practices / Re: WHAT IS THE ANTIDOTE TO RESENTMENT?
« Last post by stevie on September 05, 2019, 01:16:32 am »
forgive me, but you are basicly saying "the antidote is the dharma" -

Dear loopix,

What I am saying is: Without being embedded in the 8-fold path there is no antidot against any kind of unease because an alleged antidot outside the sphere of all limbs of the path is either ineffective or just causes replacement of one unease by another.

A holistic approach is necessary:
1. make sure you have implemented all limbs of the 8-fold path
2. based on the practice of the 8-fold path you may apply an antidot against a specific affliction/unease.

Since the kind of 8-fold path that is practiced depends on lineage and there are different states of progress on the path there is a multitude of antidots ... just to mention some of these: some cure afflictions with emptiness, some cure afflictions with the four immeasurables, some cure afflictions with mindfulness, some cure afflictions with avoidance/renunciation, some cure afflictions with the discipline arising from contemplating karma and its effets and some make use of all kinds of antidots depending on circumstances.

 :anjali: :dharma:

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The Tibetan Connection (General) / Re: Understanding the levels of vajrayana
« Last post by Chaz on September 04, 2019, 07:36:21 pm »

Why are you changing the subject, yet again? 


There's been no subject change.

Actually, relative to the OP, yes it is.  So here's what I'm going to do:  I'll lock the thread, for now.  Maras And Buddhas can contact me privately and we can discuss reopening the subject on it's original topic.
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Meditation and Self-Reflection Practices / Re: WHAT IS THE ANTIDOTE TO RESENTMENT?
« Last post by Anemephistus on September 04, 2019, 01:42:30 pm »
Gratitude. Compassion. The wisdom to understand instead of judge. Curating the ability to let go of false views and letting life as it really is enter our understanding instead of keeping life as we would have liked it or wanted it from poisoning our understanding and compassion.

Many things happen to us. The events that lead to some of those things rise deep from circumstances which we cannot know and do not control. Being ignorant of what fully gives rise to the hardships we face, replacing what is with what we think should be instead of living what should be within what is brings resentment.

We think: I have been wronged, we have all felt this, me, you, everyone. Perhaps we were very wronged and it hurt us deeply, maybe its just an annoying pattern of behavior. Whatever the case, we often do not see it in the full light of its composite nature.

In my best assessment, the critical difference between what becomes a resentment and what does not is that we go into our thoughts and we visit the resentment. It becomes a whisper that speaks to us in the presence of those things which we remind ourselves look like it's nature and in the presence of those who we attribute it's existence to. 

As it really is, as best I can tell, is we are the source of our resentments. We keep them and tell ourselves it is the normal reaction to whatever circumstance we have faced which we are resenting. This may be true, maybe where we live it is normal to have these metal formations, maybe it is normal everywhere and part of being human, there is no shame in experiencing resentment. But if one want to be rid of resentment then there is work to be done.

Life feels hard, bad situations feel like they still matter, people who wronged us feel like we deserved better. With the truth on our side though all we have is what happened, the illusion anything else was every going to be part of our story, that anything else was every going to be different than it was is just a figment of the mind wanting. It hurts and we have all done it. It is not based on what happened but on how we are reacting to what happened...which is good news because that means we own our part of it, how we feel and what we interpret is coming from us.

Did the object of our resentment know better than to perform the harmful action? If so does the harmful action come from something inside them which makes them suffer too? Do we understand the full circumstances in the life of the person we resent which gave rise to them causing us harm?  Do we re-enforce our own illusions about what we would have liked them to do instead? Do we keep them near us without any sign that the situation will be addressed or healed? Have we become physically separate without really letting letting go of our own pain? Have we evaluated how we can use the hurt in our story to show others freedom from that same pain? 

There is a lot to do if resentment has a lot of momentum, but there is also very little we need to do once we are ready to let it go.

Depending on the severity of the actions we may never include a person we resent in our lives again, I have been in this position, but the impression they left that gets left in the heart stays, we choose what to do with the impression.

Much love to you all!
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Meditation and Self-Reflection Practices / Re: WHAT IS THE ANTIDOTE TO RESENTMENT?
« Last post by loopix on September 04, 2019, 07:14:41 am »
so to tone it out and down, and by that up: how do you correct the views of people who hold "right view" that is just wrong, in the sense of actual real world problems?

This just got bigger and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay controversial. Movd thread to Danger Zone?

Lol. holy mother of a worm, I'm in trouuble here  :eek: :wacky:
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Meditation and Self-Reflection Practices / Re: WHAT IS THE ANTIDOTE TO RESENTMENT?
« Last post by loopix on September 04, 2019, 07:12:48 am »
forgive me, but you are basicly saying "the antidote is the dharma" - which is like hearing someone saying "dude, I need to turn my life around, I'm in pain, I need to get rid of trauma caused by years of abuse and whatnot" - and some know it all comes by and says "turn to God, go in peace".

Forgive my french, it is complete and utter regurgitation of the words of people with holier than thou lives, having never had to live with the actual misery of the world.


No, I asked: what is the antidote to resentment, actual remedy, not the basic nonsensical answers clergy without any experience with the misery of the world, like actual people, not "holy beings in robes" who are being  bowed and prostrated to at every time of day.

Sorry, outragous, but truth.


Actual action, actual appliable practice, not the summarization of scripture and "do some lam rim".

No, actual "this is how the thought process works, this is the path to giude your emotions through, and this  is the way to apply the proper meditation in order to faciliate that process"


...not "follow the eightfold path and be blessed, friend".

(edit: spell check and outrage notification: yes, I have some trouble with some aspects of clergy being held in high regard in ways that make them blind to what they teach, and the people who live lives they do not have the cpacity to understand, forgive, will not elaborate unless asked  :headbow: )

(forgive the insane wrath, but holy bejesus, some people just are well read with no experience.)
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Meditation and Self-Reflection Practices / Re: WHAT IS THE ANTIDOTE TO RESENTMENT?
« Last post by stevie on September 03, 2019, 09:30:57 pm »
what on earth are you on about?

please elaborate. if anyone has any advice that is effective in regards of eliminating resentment, it is a path that omits "the main thing" ?
What is the main thing? In this context, it is eliminating resentment.

Please read accurately what I've written:
Quote
The path taught by the Buddha is the only antitdot to all kinds of unease. So if anyone comes up with some kind of antidot to this or that kind of unease that isn't this path then that's an advice that omits the main thing.

So I've said:
If one wants to get rid of the unease of resentment then the path that leads to cessation of unease taught by the Buddha is the antidot.
Why did I say this?
Because if one uses an alleged antidot against only one kind of unease one is merely replacing one kind of unease by another.

So what then is the antidot?

The antidot is:
Right View
Right Resolve/Intention
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Livelihood
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Concentration

 :anjali:
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The Tibetan Connection (General) / Re: Understanding the levels of vajrayana
« Last post by stevie on September 03, 2019, 09:14:56 pm »

Why are you changing the subject, yet again? 


There's been no subject change. The subject still is whether there can be practice uninformed by teaching. you say 'yes' and I say 'no'.


View arises from practice.

No. Practice modifies view.
First there is teaching for beginners which causes view of beginnners which is the basis for practice of beginners. Practice of beginners may modify view of the advanced and that may be confirmed or modified by teaching for the advanced which is then the basis for practice of the advanced.
This cycle is repeated for the more advanced, the more and more advanced etc. which is the progress on the path.


... There are teachings to be given, sure, but the practice is what matters.
That's fine because considering the progress on the path the opposite is valid as well: There is practice to be done, sure, but the teaching is what matters.
And then considering the progress on the path both is valid: There is practice based on teachings and teaching based on practice, sure, teaching and practice matter equally.
And finally, considering the progress on the path: Neither can there be practice without teachings nor teachings without practice, sure, neither practice without teachings nor teachings without practice can matter.


 :anjali:
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