Recent Posts

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10
1
The Dharma Express / Re: dependent arising
« Last post by zafrogzen on Today at 05:37:51 pm »
Although I mentioned it when I started this conversation I haven’t said how “emptiness” figures in my view of dependent arising. If there is a permanent, unchanging, inherent nature in things which makes them separate from everything else, then dependent arising is impossible. We put names and concepts on things to distinguish them from other objects and then we take those names and concepts for something truly existing. I use the example of a tree. If all of the constituents that make up a tree are taken away, such as the roots, the trunk, the bark, the branches and the leaves, would we expect to find a “tree” inside of the tree? If there was something that was truly separate and permanent then things could exist independently. But because everything is empty like that, including us, there is dependently arising.
2
Quote from: Gibbon
If one continues on the Tibetan Buddhist path, eventually one will take refuge in the Lama, too.  But the initial refuge ceremony (outer refuge) does not include that.

No, that wasn't correct in my own experience. In the Vajrayana Refuge ceremony I took part in years ago, I was a beginner, together with some other students who were also beginners.  A Tibetan tulku directed the proceedings and the main part of the liturgy we repeated after the lama was :

LAMA LA CHAB SU CHIO (I take refuge in the Lama),

SAN JAY LA CHAB SU CHIO (I take refuge in the Buddha),

CHU LA CHAB SU CHIO (I take refuge in the Dharma)

GEN DUN LA CHAB SU CHIO. (I take refuge in the Sangha).


Vajrayana practitioners also take refuge in all the gurus, yidams and protectors of their lineage.


_/|\_

3
It is nice to have a formal refuge ceremony once you are sure you are going to be following the Buddhist path.  Because it is all the same refuge (Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha), I don't think it matters much which school you take it with initially.  In any case, you take refuge every day as you practice, and your understanding of it deepens as more time passes.


It isn't all the same refuge. In Tibetan Buddhism one takes refuge in the Lama, Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. Lama comes first.



If one continues on the Tibetan Buddhist path, eventually one will take refuge in the Lama, too.  But the initial refuge ceremony (outer refuge) does not include that.

Here are some articles on refuge from the Tibetan Buddhist perspective:

http://www.fpmt-ldc.org/pdf/refuge.pdf

https://fpmt.org/mandala/archives/mandala-issues-for-2006/june/which-vows-are-which-a-beginners-guide/

4
The Dharma Express / Re: Things that make me go "hmmmm"
« Last post by philboyd on Today at 04:52:25 am »
A primary teaching of the Buddha is a view that clings to objects, ideas, belief systems, feelings, and phenomenal occurrence leads to identification of a self based on ignorance of Four Noble Truths. When I find myself defending the path I have chosen, rather than attempting to explain it from an impersonal point of view, I demonstrate the ego building that I am attempting to eradicate.
5
Deleted. (double post)
6
It is nice to have a formal refuge ceremony once you are sure you are going to be following the Buddhist path.  Because it is all the same refuge (Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha), I don't think it matters much which school you take it with initially.  In any case, you take refuge every day as you practice, and your understanding of it deepens as more time passes.


It isn't all the same refuge. In Tibetan Buddhism one takes refuge in the Lama, Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. Lama comes first.

This is an excellent article "Buddha, Dharma, Sangha" by Ajahn Sumedho of the Theravada Thai Forest Tradition:

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma2/bds.html


_/|\_
7
The Dharma Express / Re: Looking for input on refuge and precepts between schools
« Last post by Gibbon on July 17, 2018, 12:41:50 pm »
It is nice to have a formal refuge ceremony once you are sure you are going to be following the Buddhist path.  Because it is all the same refuge (Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha), I don't think it matters much which school you take it with initially.  In any case, you take refuge every day as you practice, and your understanding of it deepens as more time passes. 
8
The Dharma Express / Re: Things that make me go "hmmmm"
« Last post by zafrogzen on July 17, 2018, 10:20:28 am »
Hi philboyd,

You wrote –
Quote
So it seems there are conflicting schools and as we make our case for our personal bent, how much is a defense and how much is impersonal explication?

The only way there is “impersonal explication” in something like this is if you consider certain material to be like a bible -- revealed truth from some infallible source. Otherwise it’s all “personal” because it’s based on personal experience, either your own or others.

Your original questions tend to be quite revealing, between the lines. More so than your answers. But I did find the questions provocative, so I will try to give some of my own answers.

1. Are the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha relevant to your practice? Yes.

2. Is an understanding of the Four Noble Truths ( including the Eightfold Path ) a foundational element of your practice? Not so much. I’d put “Enlightenment” in that place -- with the understanding that it is the path as well as the goal. There is an undeniable sense that this life is incomplete, that somewhere along the line there was a fall from grace and that trying to find a way of return is a worthwhile endeavor. But I don’t see this life as nothing but Dukka and feel a burning need to escape. Just the opposite. I find this life awesome and wondrous, including both the suffering and the bliss. If there is Nirvana, it’s right here, no where else.

3. Is meditation alone enough to deliver awakening? In theory it is, but without some training and experience with a teacher and a sangha, the possibilities for rigorous practice are unlikely to occur. However, I think at a certain point meditation alone is enough.

4. Why do you practice? The same as #2.

5. Do you consider your practice Buddhist? I don’t find that very relevant. It looks to me like an attitude that has caused a lot of harm in this world.

6. What does awakening mean to you? Same as #2.

7. Is salvation of an eternal agent? It transcends both eternal or transitory.

8. Is religion, metaphysics, science, and etcetera your interest here? Not so much. Practice is my main interest.
9
Hello Empty13,
 
You said
Quote
I don't know exactly why I feel like I need to take the vows formally; maybe it's a psychological thing, or it's simply my pride in my spirituality or some other hang up, which I would be better to do away with either way
There are a some of us zen types who eschew ceremonial taking of vows, devotion, altars and such, but if you have sincere feeling for that direction please don't let other people's opinions get in the way of what is a beautiful and valid path. That might be why your Soto teacher suggested you investigate different ways. Soto is into repetition and ritual, but is otherwise pretty stripped down to just sitting zazen.
10
The Dharma Express / Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Last post by philboyd on July 16, 2018, 08:36:36 pm »
Start with the Magga-vibhanga Sutta
You will find it at accesstoinsight.org
Nagara Sutta
same address
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10

SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal