Author Topic: Split in the Community  (Read 278 times)

Offline Samana Johann

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Split in the Community
« on: June 24, 2017, 10:07:08 pm »
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Saṅghabhedaka Sutta - Split in the Community




At one time The Blessed One was abiding in Gosita's monastery in Kosambi. Venerable Ananda approached The Blessed One, worshipped and sat on a side and The Blessed One said:

"So then, Ananda, is the dispute settled?"

"Venerable Sir, how could the dispute be settled, venerable Anuruddha's co-associate Bahiya, organizes a complete split of the Community and venerable Anuruddha does not think to say a word about it."

"Ananda, when will Anuruddha settle disputes in the Community? Isn't it that you should settle whatever disputes that arise together with Sariputta and Maggallana.

"Ananda, the evil bhikkhu (person/member of a community) seeing four reasons for his benefit delights in a split in the Community. What four?

"Here, Ananda, to the evil bhikkhu, with impure, under cover activity, with merely a promise to lead the holy life and with evil thoughts streaming, it occurs: If the bhikkhus come to know that I am with evil under cover activity, they will together decide not to associate me. When disssociated it would not be that they will never come to see me. Seeing this first reason for his benefit, the evil, impure bhikkhu rejoices in a split in the Community.

"Again, Ananda, to the evil bhikkhu with wrong views, holding an extremist view it occurs- If the bhikkhus come to know that I am with wrong views holding an extremist view, they will together decide not to associate me. When dissociated it would not be that they will never come to me. Seeing this second reason for his benefit, the evil, impure bhikkhu rejoices in a split in the Community.

"Again, Ananda, the evil bhikkhu leads a wrong livelihood and it occurs to him thus: If the bhikkhus come to know that I lead a wrong livelihood, they will together decide not to associate me. When dissociated it would not be that they will never come to see me. Seeing this third reason for his benefit, the evil, impure bhikkhu rejoices in a split in the Community.

"Again, Ananda, the evil bhikkhu, desires gain and fame in wrong ways and it occurs to him: If the bhikkhus come to know that I desire gain and fame in wrong ways, they will not revere, honour and esteem me, separated, I will be revered, honoured and esteemed Seeing this fourth reason for his benefit, the evil, impure bhikkhu rejoices in a split in the Community.

"Ananda, the evil bhikkhu seeing these four reasons for his benefit delights in a split in the Community."

See also: Iti 1.018; AN 6.87; AN 5.78; AN 5.129.

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Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Split in the Community
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2017, 02:29:17 am »
In MN 26, it is said, after the Buddha attained enlightenment, the percentage of humanity he would teach would be very small or few.

However, due to the Buddha's great love & virtue, the Buddha's audience grew, until the Theravada increased the scope of its teachings and then Mahayana, a greater (broader) vehicle. emerged.

It follows the Buddhist community now is comprised of:

1. Radical orthodox heartwood Buddhists: such as the Buddhadasa schools, which includes Ajahn Chah & Sumedho schools.

2. Mahavihara Sri Lankan schools: which includes mainstream Theravada, such as Bhikkhu Bodhi, Thanissaro, Ajahn Brahm, Ajahn Sujato and the Sri Lankan & Burmese teachers.

3. Mahayana schools, such as Chaan, Zen & Tibetan Buddhism.

4. Vajrayana schools, such as Avalokiteśvara, which practise deity or Bodhisattva tantra.

5. Non-Vinaya Cambodian fake monk school.

6. Others.

In short, all of the above schools that fall under the umbrella of 'Buddhism' are the 'Community' because they all have some degree of faith in the great love & virtue of Buddhahood.

 ;D  :brick:  :buddha: :grouphug: :namaste:

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Split in the Community
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 08:47:10 pm »
I only just joined this forum but I am seeing lots of rudeness and disputing going on already, which was somewhat surprising considering that each of us seems to be considering ourselves Buddhist in some way. I used to be a member of an old forum called e-sangha, but the conditions seem to have gotten even worse potentially. Buddhism has experienced many internal disputes, but has continued as well. I hope that we may be able to just enjoy and kindly enjoin what is right without belligerence and hostility between each other. I certainly do not rejoice in the shunning of various expressions of ideas or certain phraseology or development and cultivation, I think it might be best to be somewhat patient and kindly explain things to people rather than to try to immediately  cause them distress while they are still vulnerable to distress and frighten them and slap the words right out of their mouths. I've seen this behavior in many people, it seems to be a problem worth examining. It may stem from a tendency to want only good and to destroy all words and phrases deemed evil but this extremist approach can be very unpleasant. If there are such who are so knowledgeable, it is kind that they share, but really it may be best they also leave disputation and go on to the next levels if they can, never to return.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Split in the Community
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 12:17:44 am »
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33. SAMMODAMĀNA-JĀTAKA.
"While concord reigns."


This story was told by the Master while dwelling in the Banyan-grove near Kapilavatthu, about a squabble over a porter's head-pad, as will be related in the Kuṇāla-jātaka [83].

On this occasion, however, the Master spoke thus to his kinsfolk:--"My lords, strife among kinsfolk is unseemly. Yes, in bygone times, animals, who had defeated their enemies when they lived in concord, came to utter destruction when they fell out." And at the request of his royal kinsfolk, he told this this story of the past.

Once upon a time when Brahmadatta was king of Benares, the Bodhisatta was born a quail, and lived in the forest at the head of many thousands of quails. In those days a fowler who caught quails came to that place; and he used to imitate the note of a quail till he saw that the birds had been drawn together, when he flung his net over them, and whipped the sides of the net together, so as to get them all huddled up in a heap. Then he crammed them into his basket, and going home sold his prey for a living.

Now one day the Bodhisatta said to those quails, "This fowler is making havoc among our kinsfolk. I have a device whereby he will be unable to catch us. Henceforth, the very moment he throws the net over you, let each one put his head through a mesh and then all of you together must fly away with the net to such place as you please, and there let it down on a thorn-brake; this done, we will all escape from our several meshes." "Very good," said they all in ready agreement.

On the morrow, when the net was cast over them, they did just as the Bodhisatta had told them:--they lifted up the net, [209] and let it down on a thorn-brake, escaping themselves from underneath. While the fowler was still disentangling his net, evening came on; and he went away empty-handed. On the morrow and following days the quails played the same trick. So that it became the regular thing for the fowler to be engaged till sunset disentangling his net, and then to betake himself home empty-handed. Accordingly his wife grew angry and said, "Day by day you return empty-handed; I suppose you've got a second establishment to keep up elsewhere." °° "No, my dear," said the fowler; "I've no second establishment to keep up. The fact is those quails have come to work together now. The moment my net is over them, off they fly with it and escape, leaving it on a thorn-brake. Still, they won't live in unity always. Don't you bother yourself; as soon as they start bickering among themselves, I shall bag the lot, and that will bring a smile to your face to see." And so saying, he repeated this stanza to his wife:--

[§33]
While concord reigns, the birds bear off the net.
When quarrels rise, they'll fall a prey to me.


Not long after this, one of the quails, in alighting on their feeding ground, trod by accident on another's head. "Who trod on my head?" angrily cried this latter. "I did; but I didn't mean to. Don't be angry," said the first quail. But notwithstanding this answer, the other remained as angry as before. Continuing to answer one another, they began to bandy taunts, saying, "I suppose it is you single-handed who lift up the net." As they wrangled thus with one another, the Bodhisatta thought to himself, "There's no safety with one who is quarrelsome. The time has come when they will no longer lift up the net, and thereby they will come to great destruction. The fowler will get his opportunity. I can stay here no longer." And thereupon he with his following went elsewhere.

Sure enough the fowler [210] came back again a few days later, and first collecting them together by imitating the note of a quail, flung his net over them. Then said one quail, "They say when you were at work lifting the net, the hair of your head fell off. Now's your time; lift away." The other rejoined, "When you were lifting the net, they say both your wings moulted. Now's your time; lift away."

But whilst they were each inviting the other to lift the net, the fowler himself lifted the net for them and crammed them in a heap into his basket and bore them off home, so that his wife's face was wreathed with smiles.

"Thus, sire," said the Master, "such a thing as a quarrel among kinsfolk is unseemly; quarrelling leads only to destruction." His lesson ended, he shewed the connexion, and identified the Birth, by saying, "Devadatta was the foolish quail of those days, and I myself the wise and good quail."

[Note. See for the migrations of this story Benfey's Pañca-Tantra 1. 304, and Fausböll in R.AṢ. Journal, 1870. See also Julien's Avadānas, Vol. 1. page 155.]

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Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Split in the Community
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 02:32:46 am »
I don't think I'm like an evil monk. I really would refuse power and authority, I just think historical Buddhism was pretty cool and interesting and that these New Buddhist types are just making up a totally new atheistic Buddhism that isn't anything like the traditional things historically called Buddhist for the most part, they are just making up a New thing and tagging along the word Buddhism and apparently twisting old writings in English translations to try to make them mean new ideas.

In the end, if Buddhism ends up needing to be abandoned because of this viral hijacking of it, then so be it, the True Dharma remains, regardless of the lies people tell regarding it or their invented modernist versions that say that its all just "fables".

 


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