Author Topic: Please suggest subforums here!  (Read 4997 times)

Offline Karma Sonam

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2009, 06:23:09 am »
I may be the only true geek out there that finds this interesting but what about a sub forum in the Academy on Buddhism and Science? (cue the tumbleweed and the only sound being the whoosh of the wind....)  Just a suggestion.  IN my defence this is a growing area of interest.  HHDL as set up a Buddhist science cross over thingy....  OK, I'll stop now.
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Don't forget to stop and smell the daisies.

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Offline humanitas

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2009, 11:36:55 am »
I'm interested... but I'm a geek like that too... :book:
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Offline Monkey Mind

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2009, 11:49:31 am »
Count me in. The filed of neurocognitive psychology seems to keep confirming what Buddha taught 2500 years ago...

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2009, 11:32:36 pm »
Count me in. The field of neurocognitive psychology seems to keep confirming what Buddha taught 2500 years ago...
Have you seen the B. Alan Wallace video on YouTube about his Shamatha Project? He has a bunch of scientists study people on retreat.
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Wonky Badger

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2009, 12:08:21 am »
I may be the only true geek out there that finds this interesting but what about a sub forum in the Academy on Buddhism and Science? (cue the tumbleweed and the only sound being the whoosh of the wind....)  Just a suggestion.  IN my defence this is a growing area of interest.  HHDL as set up a Buddhist science cross over thingy....  OK, I'll stop now.
We can certainly try it out!
My actions are my only true belongings.
I cannot escape the consequences of my actions.
My actions are the ground on which I stand.
---
What would Buddha do?

Offline humanitas

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2010, 11:47:03 pm »
I'd like to suggest a Debate forum.  We have some people on the forum rather skilled in debate, we could make a special TOS for a Debate sub-forum where people can have matches if they'd like on common Buddhist differences.  People can have their part in a debate following a set of logical criteria, we'd have a clean layout of rules for backing up sources and claims, and people can debate all day long.  This could be the internet version of how monks debate among each other.  Of course, we're not all as educated as this, but there are some members whose knowledge and skill in this is excellent and it would be fun for those of us who appreciate this style of exchange to observe them take up and discuss the dharma according to their teachings from their schools.  Part of the TOS of course is the common respect to acknowledge that absolutely no one school is viewed as better or more important than any other Buddhist school.  All debate arguments must maintain form of sticking to the points of disagreement and concede points where there is agreement.  It'd be a fun way to both keep our dharma knowledge sharp and for those of us interested in learning the differences between schools it would be a way to get exposure to different traditions in the nitty gritty practice.

Thoughts?

 :anjali:
Ogyen
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 11:49:18 pm by 0gyen Chodzom »
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Offline Wonky Badger

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2010, 12:52:15 am »
Could a debate forum work? It would be a thin line to walk. In setting up a deliberate debate, in a sense we are implying that there could be a winner. If there is a winner there will be losers. Parallels might be drawn between the winner and their tradition and the and the losers and their traditions. I would prefer to apply the same principle that we apply in Aikido class; that we don't practice against each other, but with each other.

However, if our members would like to have a debate forum, I might be persuaded to create one. :)
My actions are my only true belongings.
I cannot escape the consequences of my actions.
My actions are the ground on which I stand.
---
What would Buddha do?

Offline Ngawang Drolma

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2010, 01:29:10 am »
I think it's a good idea.  In some forms of Buddhism, like Sakya, debate is a normal activity.  A lot of people like to communicate that way and if we create a special forum for it, I think there will be an expectation that it will be less emotive and simply a manner of discussing, exchanging, and even challenging.  And then up front it rules out any flaming, too.

Not everyone has to enter into that section (like our Danger Zone) but for those who enjoy a good debate or reading debates (like me) it could be good.

 :pray:

Offline humanitas

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2010, 01:53:46 am »
Could a debate forum work? It would be a thin line to walk. In setting up a deliberate debate, in a sense we are implying that there could be a winner. If there is a winner there will be losers. Parallels might be drawn between the winner and their tradition and the and the losers and their traditions. I would prefer to apply the same principle that we apply in Aikido class; that we don't practice against each other, but with each other.

However, if our members would like to have a debate forum, I might be persuaded to create one. :)

Wonky,

those used to this style of communication and testing each others' "horns" find this kind of debate playful and a way to improve their understanding of more difficult concepts by "battling" points.  This is not a fight and it's not like people are insulting each other it's more setting up the strongest presentation of the interpretation of dharma.  The objective is always to be most accurate by having reduced the most self-importance.  From what I understand, this is a common feature of the Tibetan style of debate... Ngawang...?  Do you know?
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Offline Ngawang Drolma

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2010, 02:20:12 am »
In some Tibetan traditions yes, I believe it is.  Sakya, for example, takes debate as a normal part of the learning process as I understand it.

And you're entirely right that debating isn't fighting or anything, it's an organized way of presenting different points or defending different conclusions based on intellectual understandings.

 :namaste:
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 02:22:14 am by Ngawang Drolma »

Offline Wonky Badger

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2010, 02:31:29 am »
OK, so where would we put this subforum then? And I guess you guys are volunteering to put together the TOS? :D
My actions are my only true belongings.
I cannot escape the consequences of my actions.
My actions are the ground on which I stand.
---
What would Buddha do?

Offline Ngawang Drolma

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2010, 03:05:34 am »
Sure, it will just take me a little while and I'll enlist the help of a fellow I know who's an expert of dialectics.  I think if we explain that a bit, then the terms of engagement will be clear.

As for where it could go, I'll take a peek  :)

Thanks Wonky Badger!

Offline humanitas

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2010, 12:29:29 pm »
Sure, it will just take me a little while and I'll enlist the help of a fellow I know who's an expert of dialectics.  I think if we explain that a bit, then the terms of engagement will be clear.

As for where it could go, I'll take a peek  :)

Thanks Wonky Badger!

And I can help a little as I have some experience with dialectics but not as much as your expert friend I'm sure.

Laura and I can help take care of this kind of section.  The subforum could go in Buddhist Philosophy maybe a subforum called Dialectics since dialectics are indeed a part of Buddhist Philosophy.  (Perhaps give it a real serious and no nonsense name to differentiate it completely from the kind of debate that can take place in the danger zoners)  The purpose of having dialectics would be a purely academic one for those with a philosophical bent...  Laura let's coordinate on the dialectic TOS.

I haven't seen this kind of environment online, but I have hopes at least it could be really fun for those members who enjoy a good bout of dialectics with their fellow thinkers.  As long as TOS and rules are respected, there should be no hostilities.

Quote
Buddhist dialectic
See also: Buddhist philosophy
Buddhism has developed sophisticated, and sometimes highly institutionalized traditions of dialectics during its long history. Nalanda University, and later the Gelugpa Buddhism of Tibet, are sage examples. The historical development and clarification of Buddhist doctrine and polemics, through dialectics and formal debate, is well-documented. Buddhist doctrine was rigorously critiqued (though not ultimately refuted) in the 2nd century by Nagarjuna, whose uncompromisingly logical approach to the realisation of truth, became the basis for the development of a vital stream of Buddhist thought. This dialectical approach of Buddhism, to the elucidation and articulation of an account of the Cosmos as the truth it really is, became known as the Perfection of Wisdom and was later developed by other notable thinkers, such as Dignaga and Dharmakirti (between 500 and 700). The dialectical method of truth-seeking is evident throughout the traditions of Madhyamaka, Yogacara, and Tantric Buddhism. Trisong Detsen, and later Je Tsongkhapa, championed the value of dialectic and of formalised training in debate in Tibet.
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Offline Ngawang Drolma

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2010, 01:19:07 pm »
Wonderful, OC.  I think it will be a useful subforum.
I'm glad we're putting our heads together on this.

 :namaste:

Offline Monkey Mind

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Re: Please suggest subforums here!
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2010, 03:26:23 pm »
Whereas I am thoroughly unskilled in debate, so will avoid the whole thing all together.

A little off topic, but in the name of humor... In his book, "Thoughts Without a Thinker", psychoanalyst Mark Epstein told this story about an American university's attempt to create a Dharma debate:

Quote
In the early days of my interest in Buddhism and psychology,I was given a particularly vivid demonstation of how difficult it was going to be to forge an integration between the two.  Some friends of mine had arranged for an encounter between two prominent visiting Buddhist teachers at the house of a Harvard University psychology professor.  These were teachers from two distinctly different Buddhist traditions who had never met and whose traditions had in fact had very little contact over the past thousand years.  Before the worlds of Buddhism and Western psychology could come together, the various strands of Buddhism would have to encounter one another.  We were to witness the first such dialogue.

The teachers, seventy-year-old Kalu Rinpoche of Tibet, a veteran of years of solitary retreat, and the Zen master Seung Sahn, the first Korean Zen master to teach in the United States, were to test each other's understanding of the Buddha's teachings for the benefit of the onlooking Western students.  This was to be a high form of what was being called _dharma_ combat (the clashing of great minds sharpened by years of study and meditation), and we were waiting with all the anticipation that such a historic encounter deserved.  The two monks entered with swirling robes -- maroon and yellow for the Tibetan, austere grey and black for  the Korean -- and were followed by retinues of younger monks and translators with shaven heads.  They settled onto cushions in the familiar cross-legged positions, and the host made it clear that the younger Zen master was to begin.  The Tibetan lama sat very still, fingering a wooden rosary (_mala_) with one hand while murmuring, _"Om mani padme hum"_ continuously under his breath.

The Zen master, who was already gaining renown for his method of hurling questions at his students until they were forced to admit their ignorance and then bellowing, "Keep that don't know mind!" at them, reached deep inside his robes and drew out an orange. "What is this?" he demanded of the lama.  "What is this?"  This was a typical opening question, and we could feel him ready to pounce on whatever response he was given.

The Tibetan sat quietly fingering his mala and made no move to respond.

"What is this?" the Zen master insisted, holding the orange up to the Tibetan's nose.

Kalu Rinpoche bent very slowly to the Tibetan monk near to him who was serving as the translator, and they whispered back and forth for several minutes.  Finally the translator addressed the room: "Rinpoche says, 'What is the matter with him?  Don't they have oranges where he comes from?"

The dialog progressed no further.

 


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