Author Topic: Lamrim.  (Read 2942 times)

Offline zerwe

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2010, 12:34:27 pm »
Just in case some newbie like me could use my story, I'll tell it: after some time looking for a way to stablish a practice, I found (my ignorance knows no limits :blush:) gelug school, and lam rim into it. It helps me a lot to have an structured approach, having a plan for practice makes me very comfortable and reassures me. I have issues overcoming my laziness, and some of them are easier with a structure to rely upon.

I got Lam Rim Chen Mo (doing a first read now) and Liberation in the palm of your hand, so I can have one more light the times I don't understand something (which are a lot, really). And, as a steering wheel for all these high teachers, and.. I'll say a more gentle and modern presentation of the topics, I'm listening to the teachings of Ven. Thubten Chodron on my mp3. It's been really helpful, it helps me a lot to commit to the practice having access to these wonderful teachings. I live in a medium Spanish town, and there's not a lot of Lamas giving teachings around here, really, at least not in a constant way, so it makes me very happy to have access to the Dharma teachings from here (it seems like some of the topics on perfect human rebirth are beginning to sink in... :teehee:)

For what it's worth, I'm starting with it... for now, entering Perfec Human Rebirth topic, next I'll head to meditation on death.

Sergio
Hi, Sergio. It sounds like we are focused on the same scope. Let me know how you progress. It would be nice to interact with someone else who is starting their practice. Best of wishes to you and everyone else's progress on the path.  :namaste:

Offline catmoon

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2010, 02:13:59 pm »
I occasionally do the death meditation part of lam rim but I don't know if this is wise considering my normal frame of mind is pretty grim already.
Sergeant Schultz was onto something.

Offline Will

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2010, 08:56:37 pm »
There are many Stages of the Path texts (LamRim).  Here is a snip from the Great Stages of the Path (LamRimChenMo) by Je Tsongkhapa.  There are three types of motivations for practice; here the first type is outlined:

Quote
All the teachings given by a buddha simply accomplish the welfare of living beings. This being the case, the welfare of living beings is what you should accomplish as well. [87] This welfare is twofold: the provisional goal of high status as a human or deity, and the final goal of the certain goodness of liberation or omniscience. Between these two, many of the Buddha's statements pertain to the attainment of the temporary goal of high status. All of these statements are included in the teachings for a person of genuine small capacity or the teachings shared with such a person, because persons of special small capacity do not work very much on behalf of this lifetime, but they diligently strive for the excellent high states of human or divine rebirth in future lifetimes by engaging in the cultivation of their causes.

Know to be "least" those persons
Who diligently strive to attain
Solely the joys of cyclic existence
By any means for their welfare alone.
(Atisha)
The bodhi resolve is like empty space, this because its marvelous qualities are boundlessly vast.  Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 39

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2010, 10:13:34 pm »
I occasionally do the death meditation part of lam rim but I don't know if this is wise considering my normal frame of mind is pretty grim already.
What, the idea that at some point you won't have to worry about all the different issues, dramas, expectations, criticisms, etc. that rule and define our day-to-day lives doesn't inspire you? :wink1:
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline catmoon

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2010, 01:01:34 am »
I occasionally do the death meditation part of lam rim but I don't know if this is wise considering my normal frame of mind is pretty grim already.
What, the idea that at some point you won't have to worry about all the different issues, dramas, expectations, criticisms, etc. that rule and define our day-to-day lives doesn't inspire you? :wink1:

Nope. What happens is I tend to lock onto dread, pain, infirmity and helplessness.
Sergeant Schultz was onto something.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2010, 04:32:18 am »
OK, a show of hands. How many of us actually meditate on death? :no:

I do, but I don't practice lamrim.

Spiny
Meditating on death is part of the Lamrim, as is karma, the defects of samsara, and the precious human rebirth.

There cand be more than that, but those are still lamrim.

Yes, for sure.  Meditating on death is also described in the Satipatthana Sutta.  I did lamrim for a number of years but found it a bit "intellectual".

Spiny

Offline Caz

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2010, 08:09:59 am »
OK, a show of hands. How many of us actually meditate on death? :no:

I do, but I don't practice lamrim.

Spiny
Meditating on death is part of the Lamrim, as is karma, the defects of samsara, and the precious human rebirth.

There cand be more than that, but those are still lamrim.

Yes, for sure.  Meditating on death is also described in the Satipatthana Sutta.  I did lamrim for a number of years but found it a bit "intellectual".

Spiny

There is the interlectual analysis at the begining of the mediation so you are able to place you object correctly, Once the object or mindset is created via this method it is then time for placement mediation upon it, Its only an interlectual practise if you focus soley on the analytical mindset.  :pray:
http://emodernbuddhism.com/

This eBook Modern Buddhism – The Path of Compassion and Wisdom, in three volumes, is being distributed freely at the request of the author Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The author says: "Through reading and practicing the instructions given in this book, people can solve their daily problems and maintain a happy mind all the time." So that these benefits can pervade the whole world, Geshe Kelsang wishes to give this eBook freely to everyone.

We would like to request you to please respect this precious Dharma book, which functions to free living beings from suffering permanently. If you continually read and practice the advice in this book, eventually your problems caused by anger, attachment and ignorance will cease.

Please enjoy this special gift from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, who dedicates: "May everyone who reads this book experience deep peace of mind, and accomplish the real meaning of human life."

Offline zerwe

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2010, 09:46:51 am »
OK, a show of hands. How many of us actually meditate on death? :no:

I do, but I don't practice lamrim.

Spiny
Meditating on death is part of the Lamrim, as is karma, the defects of samsara, and the precious human rebirth.

There cand be more than that, but those are still lamrim.

Yes, for sure.  Meditating on death is also described in the Satipatthana Sutta.  I did lamrim for a number of years but found it a bit "intellectual".

Spiny

There is the interlectual analysis at the begining of the mediation so you are able to place you object correctly, Once the object or mindset is created via this method it is then time for placement mediation upon it, Its only an interlectual practise if you focus soley on the analytical mindset.  :pray:
Respectfully and IMHO I don't think that it is really that intellectual. The Lam Rim is supposed to make it easier to extrapolate the meaning contained in the original scriptures and understand how to put these things into practice. Pabonka Rinpoche makes clear that we are blessed with how accessible the scriptures can become through this study. This is thanks to the work of Atisha and Lama Tsongkhapa extant in the Lam Rim. In addition to this, he reminds us of how difficult it would be (if not impossible) if we alone had to understand how this should be put into practice based on the original scripture. :namaste:

Offline zerwe

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2010, 10:24:59 am »
Then again it is really what the individual is able to connect with in his practice. Lam Rim might not be for everyone. Who knows I might find that it is not right for me. Maybe thinking of 'Dharma as medicine' could also be interpreted that not everyone needs the same prescription (of Dharma).

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2010, 11:24:51 am »
I regard the Lam Rim as a wonderful method which providesa progressive and cogent system.

Once you've worked through the meditations, perhaps one per week, I find the best approach is a retreat  - performing all of them in sequence.

I'm so grateful that our teachers have done all the hard work in providing this system for us.

Without that foundation, Lojong and Tantra would make little sense to me. :)

Offline Mani

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2010, 06:46:35 pm »
I regard the Lam Rim as a wonderful method which providesa progressive and cogent system.
 

Without that foundation, Lojong and Tantra would make little sense to me. :)

I have to agree.  I began studying Lam Rim when I first began practicing.  Since that time, I've heard some suggest that it is not the best text to start with, but on the contrary, I think that in my case it was a great start. (For those that may find it a bit complicated in the initial stages, I suggest a commentary of Je Tsongkhapa's very short text "The Three Principal Aspects")

For Vajrayana practitioner's, it is essential to have a solid basis, and a good foundation to build one's practice upon. I think Lam Rim helps to provide a very good one. In fact, as Pabonka Says in "Liberation",  that once one has gained a good understanding of the various sections of the three scopes, just about anything can be related to a lam rim topic.

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2010, 07:29:28 pm »
For Vajrayana practitioner's, it is essential to have a solid basis, and a good foundation to build one's practice upon. I think Lam Rim helps to provide a very good one.
In western Kagyu settings the Lam Rim is dismissed as trivial. It is not trivial. It was not dismissed by Kagyupas in Tibet. It is a western error to think that.

I'm a Kagyu so I can say that. But I was fortunate enough to have a Gelugpa monk as my mentor and he brought it to my attention that it was indispensable.
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Will

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2010, 08:02:51 pm »
Here is Je Rinpoche's short LamRim:  http://community.palouse.net/lotus/linescontents.htm

Also Essence of Refined Gold (retitled Path of Enlightenment by Snow Lion) tran. by Glenn Mullin has the commentary by the Third DL and the present DL.
The bodhi resolve is like empty space, this because its marvelous qualities are boundlessly vast.  Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 39

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2010, 01:38:13 am »
OK, a show of hands. How many of us actually meditate on death? :no:

I do, but I don't practice lamrim.

Spiny
Meditating on death is part of the Lamrim, as is karma, the defects of samsara, and the precious human rebirth.

There cand be more than that, but those are still lamrim.

Yes, for sure.  Meditating on death is also described in the Satipatthana Sutta.  I did lamrim for a number of years but found it a bit "intellectual".

Spiny

There is the interlectual analysis at the begining of the mediation so you are able to place you object correctly, Once the object or mindset is created via this method it is then time for placement mediation upon it, Its only an interlectual practise if you focus soley on the analytical mindset.  :pray:

I'm sure you're right.  I just couldn't get on with it, maybe because I think too much anyway. :)

Offline Caz

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Re: Lamrim.
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2010, 02:30:29 am »
For Vajrayana practitioner's, it is essential to have a solid basis, and a good foundation to build one's practice upon. I think Lam Rim helps to provide a very good one.
In western Kagyu settings the Lam Rim is dismissed as trivial. It is not trivial. It was not dismissed by Kagyupas in Tibet. It is a western error to think that.

I'm a Kagyu so I can say that. But I was fortunate enough to have a Gelugpa monk as my mentor and he brought it to my attention that it was indispensable.

I always wondered how one could jump into vajrayana...Lamrim provides an essential cultivation of mind, Without great compassion, loving kindness, Bodhichitta our tantric practise will be pitiful.  :pray:
http://emodernbuddhism.com/

This eBook Modern Buddhism – The Path of Compassion and Wisdom, in three volumes, is being distributed freely at the request of the author Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The author says: "Through reading and practicing the instructions given in this book, people can solve their daily problems and maintain a happy mind all the time." So that these benefits can pervade the whole world, Geshe Kelsang wishes to give this eBook freely to everyone.

We would like to request you to please respect this precious Dharma book, which functions to free living beings from suffering permanently. If you continually read and practice the advice in this book, eventually your problems caused by anger, attachment and ignorance will cease.

Please enjoy this special gift from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, who dedicates: "May everyone who reads this book experience deep peace of mind, and accomplish the real meaning of human life."

 


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