Author Topic: Question about a Tibetan Guru  (Read 2299 times)

Offline NepalianBuddhist

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Question about a Tibetan Guru
« on: June 18, 2013, 02:56:56 pm »
What is generally considered a Guru and what is their purpose? Thanks.

GoGet

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2013, 03:31:51 pm »
What is generally considered a Guru and what is their purpose? Thanks.

In the Tibetan context a Guru is the person who you commit to for teaching and guidance in Vajrayana practices.  The Guru's role is to guide you to awakening though as many lifetimes as it takes to attain that realization.  There are a number of qualifications but the most important is that the guru should be a lineage holder and is able to transmit all the teachings of his or her lineage.  There are other qualifications of course and they are important in the student's selection process.  The matter of connection is important.  You have a sense that there is a karmic connection between you and the teacher.  Without that sense of connection the relationship between a Guru and student is pretty much impossible.

If you're up for a read, Words of My Perfect Teacher by Patrul Rinpoche is probably the best text on the subject.

You might also read about people like Tilopa and Naropa, Naropa and Marpa, and Marpa and Milarepa to get and idea about the relationship.

Offline former monk john

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 04:41:05 pm »
AT the Mahayana temples I studied at, I was Taught the guru is not always the leader of your temple, I don't think they even have to be ordained, the guru is a teacher you meet who above all others, you feel this special deeper connection, like you trust this person completely and want to learn everything they Know, I wouldn't be much concerned with lineage and titles, the person with the greater titles might be the better teacher for you, might not, you might even find the temple leader way over your head and connect with a very wise lay teacher, Guru to me means great and trusted teacher, and its not always easy to find such a teacher, a great guru for one person may be a lousy guru for another. If you start attending a Tibetan temple, they'll hook you up with translated Tibetan teachings on finding and respecting a guru, its very much as serious as a marriage, its something you don't just rush into, it might be love at first sight, it may take months or years to develop to the point where you can honestly say, this is my guru.

One of my gurus was an about 20 year old Cambodian monk, only been in the country about two years, he also happened to be good with english when almost none of the other monks were, but he single handedly convinced reluctant john to move into the Cambodian temple to be a monk for as long as I could, hopefully three months, well it was only three weeks, but much of what I learned, how to pray in pali, how to keep the vows, etc etc I learned from Him. In other words if you live at or go to a temple, you don't have to only consider the leader monk as a guru, consider who ever you can connect to that has the wisdom and especially the time for you.
to me, the signs of a successful practice are happiness and a cessation of suffering, buddhism often gives me this; not all the answers.

Offline NepalianBuddhist

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 03:14:22 pm »
What is generally considered a Guru and what is their purpose? Thanks.

In the Tibetan context a Guru is the person who you commit to for teaching and guidance in Vajrayana practices.  The Guru's role is to guide you to awakening though as many lifetimes as it takes to attain that realization.  There are a number of qualifications but the most important is that the guru should be a lineage holder and is able to transmit all the teachings of his or her lineage.  There are other qualifications of course and they are important in the student's selection process.  The matter of connection is important.  You have a sense that there is a karmic connection between you and the teacher.  Without that sense of connection the relationship between a Guru and student is pretty much impossible.

If you're up for a read, Words of My Perfect Teacher by Patrul Rinpoche is probably the best text on the subject.

You might also read about people like Tilopa and Naropa, Naropa and Marpa, and Marpa and Milarepa to get and idea about the relationship.

Who do you suppose that teacher is?...

Offline NepalianBuddhist

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 03:41:01 pm »
The purpose of my question is related to the study and practice of the Medicine Buddha.

In that book it talks about the Root Guru.

Is that the teacher?

GoGet

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 07:14:47 pm »
The purpose of my question is related to the study and practice of the Medicine Buddha.

In that book it talks about the Root Guru.

Is that the teacher?


Check this out for more info on Root Guru:
http://samyeling.org/index/the-root-guru

Root Guru doesn't necessarily figure into Medicine Buddha practice.  You don't need any transmission or permission to do it.  Just obtain the sadhana and do the practice.


Offline NepalianBuddhist

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 02:48:40 pm »
I guess you need the Root Guru for approaching to questions about the Tibetan practice.

Offline Mini-Senge

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2013, 07:58:57 am »
The root guru is the one who points out the nature of your mind in such a way that you both mutually recognize at once.  So it seems to me.

Trungpa Rinpoche describes three manifestations of the guru (I am culling this from "Crazy Wisdom" and "Illusions Game")

Hinayana: the old wise man that we venerate
Mahayana: the spiritual friend
Vajrayana: the opponent.  this is most interesting to me--

Trungpa says that at the mahayana stage of this relationship the guru and student are fighting with sticks and as it progresses to the vajrayana the student, at some point, puts down the stick and picks up a sword.  Even if/when the student's head gets cut off the fight still continues. 

This reminds me of the kungfu movie archetypal relationship when the master finally begins to fight the student (when the student is ready-ish) as an enemy; the student first relents saying "I will not fight you, you are my master" and the master replies "I already told you, I am not your master" etc.... *epic training battle ensues***    :teehee:


Offline NepalianBuddhist

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2013, 05:39:35 pm »
Is Enlightenment arisen from the mode of consciousness giving rise to Light? ... I assume the Tibetan Way is different than the Pure Land version.

Offline Mongrel

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 01:24:40 am »
From memory, Trungpa wrote that a Guru will share his subtle-body with you in the act of initiation, via Vase Consecration.  It's somewhere in the book, "The Dawn of Tantra". 


Offline former monk john

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 02:19:36 am »
Does that mean you'd get a subtle buzz from the crazy wisdom intoxicants????
to me, the signs of a successful practice are happiness and a cessation of suffering, buddhism often gives me this; not all the answers.

Offline Q

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2013, 03:48:37 pm »
In Tibetan tradition, a person may have many Gurus, but only one Root Guru. A Root Guru is the spiritual guide that has taught you the most Dharma, and has shaped you into this being that you are right now. Basically, the root Guru is the teacher that will make sure you reach enlightenment.

Knowing what the root Guru is... is not enough. One needs to study the Lamrim and know how to identify the qualities of a Guru, because unfortunately in today's world, there are people that can be conned. It is no disrespect to check out the Guru... after all, we're talking about your Enlightenment here! Just like buying something in a store, even if we buy a canned soup, we would look at the can to make sure it is not dented or rusty... so like the Guru, we check out that the Guru is truly a teacher that is aligned with what has been described in the Lamrim.

It is extremely important to have a Guru if you're serious in practicing the path to Enlightenment. Many things cannot be achieved in this lifetime if we do not. A real root guru would be the embodiment of a vajramaster, where He/She is one with the Yidam, through Him, we will find the road to Enlightenment and if we are hardworking and hold our samaya clean with our Guru, then Enlightenment can even be achieved in this lifetime.

Offline NepalianBuddhist

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 02:58:28 pm »
Would you eventually come to know the guru through the Tibetan practices?..
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 03:00:37 pm by Wesley1982 »

Offline Lobster

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 05:41:36 pm »
Would you eventually come to know the guru through the Tibetan practices?..


To a degree, eventually you will have to make contact with a lama that fits your medicine needs.
http://www.lillian-too.com/lamazopa/news_Medicine_buddha.htm

sahaja

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Re: Question about a Tibetan Guru
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2013, 11:53:55 pm »
You all mean it's not  - If they're famous enough, a celebrity with a lineage? You pay the money and take your chances?  Sign up and do it all online? With podcasts and more money and books and lessons to buy? Perhaps a retreat or two, or is it vacations? A lot whole more money but then who knows? Someday, somewhere, sometime, somehow you may even get to meet the one you call your teacher, maybe, if you pay enough.

That might ruffle feathers if there are any of a certain Dzogchen Sangha's members around. Could well be others of different schools also, but chances aren't as good i'd run into them while nosing around online.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I didn't find my teacher. He found me.

By then i had a criteria of what i was looking for.
Nothing human. Why should i think they would know enough, if anything at all?
Something like an Avatar (Hindu God) Something that would know what is.
But in physical form. (I had enough to deal without having to try to comprehend a non-physical form. Wanted something which i could more easily understand)

Not human, God like, but in human form, human body, but not born.
And then they would have to prove themselves Great enough to be My Teacher.

How's that for a criteria?
.

 


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