Author Topic: Abhidhamma  (Read 1491 times)

Offline von bek

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Abhidhamma
« on: April 07, 2014, 05:03:26 pm »
 :namaste:

Anyone into studying Abhidhamma? It has enriched my meditation. Being able to break down my mental and physical experiences into smaller and smaller parts, greatly aids in understanding anatta.

One thing I find interesting is that the Abhidhamma teaches that greed and anger cannot arise in the same mental moment. They are mutually antagonistic, one grasps while the other averts. The two alternate with such rapidity at times that they can seem to blend together; but, meditation does expose how they do not arise simultaneously. They can and do condition each other, though.

The Abhidhamma exposes all seemingly static objects as the dynamic processes they really are. Every moment is conditioned by past moments and is in turn conditioning future moments. Anyone who has not delved into the Abhidhamma, should. There is a lot to learn and it is not esoteric knowledge, it is a practical roadmap to the mind and body for meditation. (In my tradition, we are taught that the Buddha taught the Abhidhamma to Sariputta, who in turn elaborated upon it and taught it to other monks.)
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma-Sambuddhassa

Offline t

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2014, 07:05:58 pm »
My little musings on the subject...

I am more of a Sutta fan than Abhidhamma but that's just me and no, am not a fan of the pious Sariputta tale either as opposed to what modern scholarship says about its origins.

Having said that some of its topics are interesting, particularly on citta and cetasika & 'extended' delving into kamma & vipaka, which got me thinking and understanding a lot about the complexity of much stuff in life. And I recall reading Bhikkhu Sujato's The Mistique of the Abhidhamma where he mentions on Abhidhamma & Dependent Origination...
Quote
We can trace the treatment of time in the abhidhamma as an evolution from these elements. In the earliest strata of abhidhamma literature, the Sutta Exposition of the Vibhanga, we find the same series of twelve links. But the next strata, the Abhidhamma Exposition, introduces many variations by redefining the twelve links in ways never taught by the Buddha.

At times, I do my own little comparisons with Acarya Vasubandhu's Abhidharmakosa and am just starting to look into his half brother's work, Acarya Asanga in his Abhidharmasamuccaya, which some scholars state that one can find strong traces of Sarvastivada and Mahisasaka traits in them. 

Offline von bek

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2014, 07:44:17 pm »
I prefer the Suttas, too. I do not believe the Abhidhamma is a substitute for studying the suttas; but, once you have a grounding in their teachings the Abhidhamma can help refine the meditation experience. If one feels they are dealing with a contradiction between the two divisions, go with the suttas. The dhamma is always best understood in the context of the Four Noble Truths as opposed to being considered as some abstract formula.

One of the good things about the Abhidhamma analysis is its thoroughness in rooting out any place for an "I" to hide. This is where the matter of fact descriptions, devoid of narrative, find a strength in stripping away the projection of a self in the process of observation.

Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma-Sambuddhassa

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2014, 08:14:17 pm »
Correct, the Abhidhamma is not a substitute for studying the suttas, though in the same context it could also be said that the study of suttas isn't a substitute for the practice of virtue --- it all comes down to practice, practice, practice.

Anyway, if you would like to put together an Abhidhamma study group, that would be great --- we're currently encouraging several of our more "seasoned" members to facilitate such groups on the forum and share what they have learned with others.

Offline von bek

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2014, 08:52:32 pm »
Correct, the Abhidhamma is not a substitute for studying the suttas, though in the same context it could also be said that the study of suttas isn't a substitute for the practice of virtue --- it all comes down to practice, practice, practice.

Anyway, if you would like to put together an Abhidhamma study group, that would be great --- we're currently encouraging several of our more "seasoned" members to facilitate such groups on the forum and share what they have learned with others.


I would love to participate in an Abhidhamma study group. I still am very much a student of the subject; but, I am sure I can find some good material online to serve as a basis for reading and discussion.

Here is a link to the Abhidhammattha Sangaha, a really good commentary: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf

And here is a link to a good overview to the Abhidhamma from accesstoinsight: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/mendis/wheel322.html

If people are serious about it, post your interest on this thread or send me a PM on the matter...
 :namaste:
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma-Sambuddhassa

Offline Awakened_Angel

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2014, 11:27:53 pm »
yes, I have been studying ahbidhama, the ahbidhamma in practise explains better in common english  ;D

which now I feel the negative/positive feeling arise like bubble upon contact(5 sense door)

Offline von bek

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2014, 11:48:28 am »
Yes. The more you study the Abhidhamma, the easier it becomes to see dependent origination. Breaking down nama-rupa dissolves the basis for projection of the ego.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma-Sambuddhassa

Offline Awakened_Angel

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 01:58:34 am »
Yes. The more you study the Abhidhamma, the easier it becomes to see dependent origination. Breaking down nama-rupa dissolves the basis for projection of the ego.

in many suta I encounter this phrase

"experiencing on rupture"

"feeding on rupture"

what does it mean?

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2014, 02:41:06 am »
Actually, it's a translational error: the correct translation should be "raptor", as in "experiencing on raptor" or "feeding the raptor", a reference to their particular diet, more or less consisting of anything they damn well choose to eat LOL



Sorry, I couldn't resist the humor of it all  :teehee:

As for your question --- rapture is a common translation of the Pali word piti, a factor of meditative absorption. As the meditator experiences tranquillity (samatha), one of five kinds of joy (piti) will arise:

Weak rapture only causes goose bumps (piloerection).
Short rapture evocates some thunder "from time to time".
Going down rapture explodes inside the body, like waves.
Exalting rapture "makes the body jump to the sky".
Fulfilling rapture seems to be a huge flood of a mountain stream.

Note: Only the last two are considered specifically piti, where the first four are just a preparation for the last one, which is the jhanic factor --- for more information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visuddhimagga

Offline Awakened_Angel

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 01:07:08 am »
Sorry, I couldn't resist the humor of it all  :teehee:

LOL... NICE ONE

As for your question --- rapture is a common translation of the Pali word piti, a factor of meditative absorption. As the meditator experiences tranquillity (samatha), one of five kinds of joy (piti) will arise:
• Weak rapture only causes goose bumps (piloerection).
• Short rapture evocates some thunder "from time to time".
• Going down rapture explodes inside the body, like waves.
• Exalting rapture "makes the body jump to the sky".
• Fulfilling rapture seems to be a huge flood of a mountain stream.


SO, when it is said "feeding on rupture" it mean they "eat" on piti?

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 01:57:36 am »
feeding would mean that you nurture it, allow it to become a lotus in full bloom, ect., but just like with the Jhanas, you should NEVER cling or try to hold onto the experience.

Offline von bek

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2014, 03:36:44 pm »
feeding would mean that you nurture it, allow it to become a lotus in full bloom, ect., but just like with the Jhanas, you should NEVER cling or try to hold onto the experience.

Definitely. The Buddha warns us repeatedly about becoming attached to the pleasant feelings that may arise in meditation. Rapture fades away as one progresses through the jhanas.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma-Sambuddhassa

Offline Awakened_Angel

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2014, 10:10:54 pm »
Ajahn brahn say inorder to enter jhana, one needs to cultivate pitisuka ; so upon enter jhana, one lets go of piti?

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2014, 10:31:40 pm »

Offline Awakened_Angel

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Re: Abhidhamma
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2014, 11:38:02 pm »
THANKS MATE

Quote
So to summarize the method for entering the first jhana: You sit in a nice comfortable upright position, and generate access concentration by putting and maintaining your attention on a single meditation object. When access concentration arises, then you shift your attention from the breath (or whatever your method is) to a pleasant sensation, preferably a pleasant physical sensation. You put your attention on that sensation, and maintain your attention on that sensation, and do nothing else.


entire article talks about access concentration, I suppose is to shift the attention to piti or nimitta? after breath subsides

 


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