Author Topic: Confused  (Read 223 times)

Offline kimjihoon5924

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Confused
« on: April 25, 2017, 06:53:07 am »
I am a Korean Buddhist studying in Malaysia. Recently I have visited a Theravada temple in Kuala Lumpur. I realised statues of Avalokitesvara (Gwan-Eum in Korean) did not exist and only statues of Siddartha Gautama (Seokgamoni) were there. I had a talk with a few Buddhists there and I was astonished to know that sutras like the Heart Sutra (Banyashimgyeong) or the Diamond Sutra (Geumganggyeong) were not able to be recited by the Theravada Buddhists. Are some Mahayana sutras forbidden to be recited and what are Theravada views on such practice?  :namaste:

Offline si2

  • Path walker
  • Member
  • Posts: 8
  • The finger that points at the moon is not the moon
    • View Profile
    • The Long Road (Addhāna-magga)
Re: Confused
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 07:07:37 am »
I think it is rather more that Theravada is focussed on the Pali Tipiṭaka and that the Heart and Diamond Suttas are not part of that collection and considered later Mahayana texts.    I am not sure that it is "forbidden" to read Mahayana texts and in fact I consider a key tenet of Buddhism to be the spirit of free inquiry ;-)

See Kalama Sutta : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalama_Sutta

Metta

Si
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 07:09:44 am by si2 »
“All Experiences are preceded by mind, having mind as their master, created by the mind.”

http://www.addhanamagga.uk/

Online IdleChater

  • Member
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Confused
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 08:31:23 am »
I am a Korean Buddhist studying in Malaysia. Recently I have visited a Theravada temple in Kuala Lumpur. I realised statues of Avalokitesvara (Gwan-Eum in Korean) did not exist and only statues of Siddartha Gautama (Seokgamoni) were there. I had a talk with a few Buddhists there and I was astonished to know that sutras like the Heart Sutra (Banyashimgyeong) or the Diamond Sutra (Geumganggyeong) were not able to be recited by the Theravada Buddhists. Are some Mahayana sutras forbidden to be recited and what are Theravada views on such practice?  :namaste:

Theraveda doesn't recognize the Mahayana Canon - Heart Sutra, etc.  That's why you won't hear them reciting such sutras.  The same applies to deities such as you mentioned.  I don't know if their forbidden or not. 

Offline Pixie

  • Member
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
    • Buddhism Without Boundaries
Re: Confused
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2017, 01:16:43 am »
It might be worth reading "Is the Lotus Sutra Authentic" by well-known Theravadan (and Early Buddhism scholar) Bhikkhu Sujato:

https://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/is-the-lotus-sutra-authentic/

excerpt from the article:

Quote
That the Lotus Sutra and other Mahayana Sutras were not spoken by the Buddha is unanimously supported by modern scholarship. I don’t know of a single academic in the last 150 years who has argued otherwise. The basic historical background is given in Wikipedia. The upshot is that the Lotus Sutra was composed over a period of time, or in a number of stages. The oldest sources probably stem from a little before the common era, and it was finalized around 200 CE. This makes it one of the earliest Mahayana Sutras (and it is even argued that the earliest form of the sutra may not have even been Mahayana).

So there is no doubt that the Lotus Suta and other Mahayana sutras are historically late, dating from many centuries after the Buddha.



_/|\_
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Online IdleChater

  • Member
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Confused
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 11:28:18 am »
It might be worth reading "Is the Lotus Sutra Authentic" by well-known Theravadan (and Early Buddhism scholar) Bhikkhu Sujato:

https://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/is-the-lotus-sutra-authentic/

excerpt from the article:

Quote
That the Lotus Sutra and other Mahayana Sutras were not spoken by the Buddha is unanimously supported by modern scholarship. I don’t know of a single academic in the last 150 years who has argued otherwise. The basic historical background is given in Wikipedia. The upshot is that the Lotus Sutra was composed over a period of time, or in a number of stages. The oldest sources probably stem from a little before the common era, and it was finalized around 200 CE. This makes it one of the earliest Mahayana Sutras (and it is even argued that the earliest form of the sutra may not have even been Mahayana).

So there is no doubt that the Lotus Suta and other Mahayana sutras are historically late, dating from many centuries after the Buddha.



_/|\_

It may be historically late, but in my mind that is hardly evidence of inauthenticity.  The Pali wasn't canonized until centuries after the Buddha's lifetime.  Was there some kind of deadline for getting a sutra into the authentic section?

Offline Pixie

  • Member
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
    • Buddhism Without Boundaries
Re: Confused
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 12:29:51 pm »
Further information can be found in "Sects and Sectarianism - The Origins of Buddhist Schools" by Bhikkhu Sujato.

http://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Sects__Sectarianism_Bhikkhu_Sujato.pdf


_/\_
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Online IdleChater

  • Member
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Confused
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 01:55:45 pm »
Further information can be found in "Sects and Sectarianism - The Origins of Buddhist Schools" by Bhikkhu Sujato.

http://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Sects__Sectarianism_Bhikkhu_Sujato.pdf


_/\_


Maybe you should provide something that isn't so sectarian and an abstract as well.

Offline Pixie

  • Member
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
    • Buddhism Without Boundaries
Re: Confused
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 11:43:15 pm »

Maybe you should provide something that isn't so sectarian and an abstract as well.

Its about the early Buddhist schools, did you read it....or just comment on the title?

From the foreword:

Quote
In pursuing the historical inquiry throughout this work, then, I take it for granted that the various sects all attempted to articulate and practice sincerely the Buddha’s teachings. When examined closely, the doctrines of the schools cannot be explained away as simplistic errors or alien infiltrations or deliberate corruptions. It would then follow that more sympathetic and gentle perspectives on the schools are likely to be more objective than bitterly partisan accounts.



I don't have anything further to say at the moment - daily life away from the internet takes priority.

Wishing all the best to you, Idle Chatter.

_/\_
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 12:30:23 am by Pixie »
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal