Author Topic: Craving for Non-Existence  (Read 3404 times)

Offline ground

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #105 on: July 31, 2017, 02:24:54 am »
Everything is conditioned.

Which Buddhist schools assert this?  Certainly not all of them.
How could any assertion not be conditioned? So whatever is asserted necessarily is conditioned.

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #106 on: July 31, 2017, 03:38:28 pm »
Everything is conditioned.

Which Buddhist schools assert this?  Certainly not all of them.

I can't speak for the Theravada, but the Mahayana doesn't.  There are the teachings around Dharmakaya.  This is the unconditioned body of a Buddha.  There are 2 others that are - Nirmanakaya and Samboghakaya.  Then there is Tathagatagarbha or Buddha Nature.  This generally taught as non-arising.  Then, of course, there is Nirvana.  This is release from Samsara, which means it's outside conditioned existence.

I suppose Theravada has similar teachings, but I don't know.

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #107 on: July 31, 2017, 03:40:36 pm »
Everything is conditioned.

Which Buddhist schools assert this?  Certainly not all of them.
How could any assertion not be conditioned? So whatever is asserted necessarily is conditioned.

Well, that makes about zero sense.  Must be that Direct Pretention Perception.

Offline ground

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #108 on: July 31, 2017, 08:21:54 pm »
Everything is conditioned.


Which Buddhist schools assert this?  Certainly not all of them.

How could any assertion not be conditioned? So whatever is asserted necessarily is conditioned.


Well, that makes about zero sense. 

Assertion is application of conditioned conventional language. What is itself conditioned cannot be an expression of an unconditioned.

Conditionedness of all assertions however does not negate that some assertions can be valid knowledge, it just excludes that truth inheres in any of them since the objects arising from the linguistic signs are empty of true existence.


Must be that Direct  Perception.

If an assertion is based on direct perception then it is valid knowledge.



Assertions are verbal fabrications:

Quote
"These three fabrications, friend Visakha: bodily fabrications, verbal fabrications, & mental fabrications."

"But what are bodily fabrications? What are verbal fabrications? What are mental fabrications?"

"In-&-out breaths are bodily fabrications. Directed thought & evaluation are verbal fabrications. Perceptions & feelings are mental fabrications."

"But why are in-&-out breaths bodily fabrications? Why are directed thought & evaluation verbal fabrications? Why are perceptions & feelings mental fabrications?"

"In-&-out breaths are bodily; these are things tied up with the body. That's why in-&-out breaths are bodily fabrications. Having first directed one's thoughts and made an evaluation, one then breaks out into speech. That's why directed thought & evaluation are verbal fabrications. Perceptions & feelings are mental; these are things tied up with the mind. That's why perceptions & feelings are mental fabrications."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.044.than.html
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 08:26:30 pm by ground »

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #109 on: July 31, 2017, 08:27:38 pm »
Assertions are verball fabrications.

Yes, this is definitely Direct Pretension  ...... errr..... Affectation ..... Perception?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 08:35:59 pm by IdleChater »

Offline ground

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #110 on: July 31, 2017, 08:31:16 pm »
Assertions are verbal fabrications.

Yes, this is definitely Direct Perception?   :lmfao:

The arising of a verbal fabrication can be directly perceived as it arises from lucid emptiness.

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #111 on: July 31, 2017, 08:37:48 pm »
Assertions are verbal fabrications.

Yes, this is definitely Direct Perception?   :lmfao:


Editing someone elses post?

Vacuous Knaughtiness!!!


Offline ground

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #112 on: July 31, 2017, 08:41:10 pm »
Assertions are verbal fabrications.

Yes, this is definitely Direct Perception?   :lmfao:


Editing someone elses post?

Vacuous Knaughtiness!!!

The post of another cannot be edited unless one is the forum administrator. Quoting only the relevant in the course of a communication however is common use in forums.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #113 on: August 01, 2017, 01:05:38 am »
Everything is conditioned.

Which Buddhist schools assert this?  Certainly not all of them.
How could any assertion not be conditioned? So whatever is asserted necessarily is conditioned.

Meh.  Are you able to give a straightforward answer to my question?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 01:08:35 am by Spiny Norman »

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #114 on: August 01, 2017, 01:06:55 am »
Vacuous Knaughtiness!!!

Pretentious piddle!   :teehee:

Offline ground

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #115 on: August 01, 2017, 01:31:33 am »
Everything is conditioned.

Which Buddhist schools assert this?  Certainly not all of them.
How could any assertion not be conditioned? So whatever is asserted necessarily is conditioned.

Meh.  Are you able to give a straightforward answer to my question?

I have given a clear explanation above why everything is conditioned in the context of assertions. If you are interested in the view of buddhist schools please look them up yourself.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #116 on: August 01, 2017, 01:42:24 am »
I have given a clear explanation above why everything is conditioned in the context of assertions. If you are interested in the view of buddhist schools please look them up yourself.

Double meh.   :wacky:

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #117 on: August 01, 2017, 05:31:17 am »
Assertions are verbal fabrications.

Yes, this is definitely Direct Perception?   :lmfao:


Yep.  Vacuous.

Editing someone elses post?

Vacuous Knaughtiness!!!

The post of another cannot be edited unless one is the forum administrator. Quoting only the relevant in the course of a communication however is common use in forums.

Offline Rahul

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #118 on: August 01, 2017, 07:52:09 pm »
Ground you are too much into semantics and logic. This might be appreciated in a university class of philosophy but not in a forum where people are looking for something insightful or practical. I guess everyone else would agree that we are here for knowledge sharing, which works best when we 'communicate'. Communication = the process of passing on a message in a format so that it is interpreted by the target audience the way you intend them to interpret. So either your intentions are not right, or the format of your message is not right. Eitherways it's failed communication. You might be enjoying showcasing your expertise in semantics or logic etc. but I tell you not many of us here are enjoying it.

Having said that, I hope you take it in the right spirit. I am looking forward to useful comments from you.

Offline ground

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Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #119 on: August 02, 2017, 02:53:38 am »
Ground you are too much into semantics and logic.
I am into rationality exclusively. And since there are words which are empty of meaning from the outset but do cause the arising of a diversity of meanings in the many minds of readers semantics is key point in the context of rationality.

This might be appreciated in a university class of philosophy but not in a forum where people are looking for something insightful or practical.
Rationality that focuses on semantics is the basis for direct perception of emptiness. Why? Because people habitually confuse language with truth but language is just language and words are empty of meaning from the outset since meaning is synthesized by conditioned minds.

I guess everyone else would agree that we are here for knowledge sharing, which works best when we 'communicate'.
Perfect. I am expressing my valid knowledge.

... So either your intentions are not right, or the format of your message is not right.
Or you are just not suitable to be appropriately inspired. But that would not matter. My words can be read, ignored or rejected. Everybody is free.

 


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