Author Topic: Craving for Non-Existence  (Read 3407 times)

Offline IdleChater

  • Member
  • Posts: 587
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2017, 02:21:43 pm »
Quote from: ground
There are those who seek external guidance and have many questions and there are those who are immersed in pure knowing.


So presumably you consider yourself to be one of "those who are immersed in pure knowing" ?


 :wacky:

I think he does.  That, or he's just trolling, which more than likely the case.

Offline IdleChater

  • Member
  • Posts: 587
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2017, 02:26:59 pm »
So can you clearly state that one does not die or cease to stop experiencing information upon the death of the body?

Still don't get it.

Higher Buddhism is about freeing the mind from the idea of "you", "one", "self", "I", "me" "mine", etc.

"Death" does not occur to the body. "Death" occurs to the idea of "self", "you" or "one".

Try to discern when people are worried about "death" or grieve "death" they are not worried or grieving over a material body but are grieving about ideas of "self", "persons", etc, such as "myself", "my mother", "my father", "my wife", "my friend", "my child", etc.

"Death" is all about the loss of personhood rather than about the loss of a material body.

Even if this is not 100% correct, can't you see the merits or reality of what is posted?

When 'self-views' are abandoned, suffering ceases. This is the core teaching of the Buddha.

 Metta :namaste:

Actually the body does die.

In an ultimate sense there is "no body to die", but we aren't living in an ultimate context.  Our experience, and hense our world, is a relative one.  In this world we will die.  Dead as a doornail.  When the body dies, the skandhas will disolve and our "person" with it.

Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2123
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #92 on: July 27, 2017, 08:54:58 pm »
Quote from: ground
There are those who seek external guidance and have many questions and there are those who are immersed in pure knowing.


So presumably you consider yourself to be one of "those who are immersed in pure knowing" ?


 :wacky:

I think he does. 
And I validly know. That's the advantage of direct perception!  :fu:

Pure knowing is when knowing knows itself. Awareness and emptiness as one.

Now where is direct perception involved here since pure knowing actually has its non-support on non-perception?

It is when phenomena arise ceaselessly from non-perception as their source that they are perceived as the known and the knowing being one.

That's the lamp of spontaneously present discriminative awareness.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 09:08:17 pm by ground »

Offline The Artis Magistra

  • Member
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #93 on: July 28, 2017, 01:30:47 am »
Its annoying to need a "qualified teacher" for reality.

Actualy, I find having a guru pretty cool.  My teacher has excellent wit and wisdom beyond his years.  He likes Coca-Cola and the Rolling Stones.  And he is emminently qualified.  He holds both the Kagyu and Nyingma lineages.  He graduated first in his class at monastic college.  To me he's as much a spiritual friend and a teacher.

Yeah, that is really good! I think what I'm more troubled by is people halting the pursuit of or study of things or dissing certain people who are not officially recognized or having any degrees or halting people making statements or observations baded on lineages or hierarchies or whatever. Many people have great teachers, others have become disenchanted by teachers or inhibited by social structures and hierarchies.

Of course my attitude stems from an obvious agenda. Anything I can't get on top of easily and quickly, which would slow progress or require difficult work would have to go for the popular propaganda or "Buddhism for the People".

Furthermore it has to do with some serious psychological problems, everything from laziness to a hatred for authority structures which keep getting me in trouble with moderators and administrations everywhere since they can just sniff out and sense civil disobedience.

Ultimately, I am not suited for any sort of Catholic Organizational Structure.

Its good your teacher is your friend. He learned wonderful things and is sharing them with you. Certain foods I can not stomach though, and everything has a flavor. I could easily learn in an unstructured way but to take an official instruction really bothers me. It is also why I will likely "amount to nothing" in life, because I do not create structures for myself where I try to control or organize groups and do not work through any such organizations to gain reputation or rank or authority or even knowledge.

Un-schooled, un-disciplined, dis-obedient, rotten child.

Maybe I will learn to be a good little boy someday, but the thought of it really disturbs me.

This is because the Highest Power is Rebel. When there was Nothing it said No, when there was no hope, no possibility, it said Yes.

Take all you can from your teacher, especially learning through compassion overall. You have a boon that I can never have, because in your heart is the ability to respect and admire others. I do admire you for your humility and your ability to pursue lengthy projects and so many things, but I am completely absorbed in vile arrogance, which is terrible because when you are the best in your mind, that means everything else isn't quite as good as one thing, so there is far less good than in the mind of the one who views everything else as better or good, then only one thing is bad and everything else is better, that is why an arrogant fool has much more to be unhappy about.

I actually do have lots of qualifications but I realized no matter what you know or have or have done, most people will piss on it and disrespect it and those loved ones who have helped too, so I never mention such things or authorize myself by such, testing instead how people will treat someone they imagine to be a wholly illegitemate vagabond without a home, a foolish and bold loud mouth know-nothing. The answer is: badly! I remember these things when I treat everyone as my teacher, so long as they are not recognized by anyone as such except me! Official status, aquaintance, true function: maha-guru.

Offline The Artis Magistra

  • Member
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2017, 01:47:08 am »
Another thing is I have a sneaking suspicion that there exists Racism among Buddhists and in all various religions, especially strongly heterogenous ethnic communities or organizations or traditions, and that people who who are from outside those cultures or gene-pools are never quite considered the same as those who are who are always considered more "real" as the others are considered forever outsiders. Like Japanese, Tibetan, Chinese. They may teach a person all sorts of stuff but I think its always almost a little joke inside. Look at the funny illegitimate white person imitating "our thing", we will teach him a little bit and save the real juice and special stuff for our people instead. Sometimes it might even be using the white man's lusty admiration and awe for the exotic to bolster ones own celebrity or fame, but never viewing them as peers really.

I'm the same way probably, except I have no peer group or anyone to turn to or trust, closed out of every gang. I go to the Latino Gang Bangers and say Hello guys, I am a Latino Gangbanger too! They say no you ain't fool, you jus' a wanna be essay. I say "I tried that already, they didn't accept me as an Essay" and they say "Wtf lets ice this fool" and I say "Tried that too, wasn't cool enough apparently". Then I run.

Offline The Artis Magistra

  • Member
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2017, 01:51:17 am »
In Tibetan Buddhism they often say so and so reincarnated as another Tibetan kid, over and over, I guess so that is that they get back into the school instead of ever once saying as an African dude "Hello guys, I am so and so reincarnated, sorry to inconvenience you or frighten you, I thought one "African Dalai Lama" might be funny, guess I was wrong".

Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2123
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2017, 02:08:37 pm »
The thought of being reborn for the benefit of others is really a great thought. Is is so great that one is reluctant to argue against it. Honestly, although I am not a believer I have to admit that that thought is so conducive. Really, the one who can establish that thought as the basis of his path, can't go astray. It is impossible to go astray when this thought has been established.
But then ... there are those that can do without all of this. Nothing is better or worse.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 02:11:14 pm by ground »

Offline Spiny Norman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5087
  • Cool baby yeah!
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #97 on: July 29, 2017, 01:28:41 am »
According to the Buddha, craving for 3 things, in particular, causes rebirth, which is sensual pleasure, existence and non-existence. It is logical to think that craving for sensual pleasure and existence will cause rebirth, but how does craving for NON-existence causes rebirth? :r4wheel:

It's a good question, given that the the aim of Buddhist practice is non-becoming.  :wink1:

Offline Spiny Norman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5087
  • Cool baby yeah!
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #98 on: July 29, 2017, 01:29:53 am »
Double post.

Offline Solodris

  • Member
  • Posts: 349
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #99 on: July 29, 2017, 06:52:49 am »
According to the Buddha, craving for 3 things, in particular, causes rebirth, which is sensual pleasure, existence and non-existence. It is logical to think that craving for sensual pleasure and existence will cause rebirth, but how does craving for NON-existence causes rebirth? :r4wheel:

It's a good question, given that the the aim of Buddhist practice is non-becoming.  :wink1:

Even better questions are:

1. What does it mean to be liberated?

2. How can rebirth result in non-becoming?

Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2123
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #100 on: July 29, 2017, 09:00:49 pm »
According to the Buddha, craving for 3 things, in particular, causes rebirth, which is sensual pleasure, existence and non-existence. It is logical to think that craving for sensual pleasure and existence will cause rebirth, but how does craving for NON-existence causes rebirth? :r4wheel:

It's a good question, given that the the aim of Buddhist practice is non-becoming.  :wink1:

Even better questions are:

1. What does it mean to be liberated?
Depends on what you want to be liberated from if you want to be liberated.

2. How can rebirth result in non-becoming?
This question presupposes a special reality of re-birth that cannot be found in the word 'rebirth'.

Offline Solodris

  • Member
  • Posts: 349
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #101 on: July 29, 2017, 11:58:38 pm »
According to the Buddha, craving for 3 things, in particular, causes rebirth, which is sensual pleasure, existence and non-existence. It is logical to think that craving for sensual pleasure and existence will cause rebirth, but how does craving for NON-existence causes rebirth? :r4wheel:

It's a good question, given that the the aim of Buddhist practice is non-becoming.  :wink1:

Even better questions are:

1. What does it mean to be liberated?
Depends on what you want to be liberated from if you want to be liberated.

2. How can rebirth result in non-becoming?
This question presupposes a special reality of re-birth that cannot be found in the word 'rebirth'.

As a conditioned being I would be under the impression that liberation is perhaps the non-conditioning of being?

Does non-becoming require non-existence?

Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2123
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #102 on: July 30, 2017, 12:52:02 am »
According to the Buddha, craving for 3 things, in particular, causes rebirth, which is sensual pleasure, existence and non-existence. It is logical to think that craving for sensual pleasure and existence will cause rebirth, but how does craving for NON-existence causes rebirth? :r4wheel:

It's a good question, given that the the aim of Buddhist practice is non-becoming.  :wink1:

Even better questions are:

1. What does it mean to be liberated?
Depends on what you want to be liberated from if you want to be liberated.

2. How can rebirth result in non-becoming?
This question presupposes a special reality of re-birth that cannot be found in the word 'rebirth'.

As a conditioned being I would be under the impression that liberation is perhaps the non-conditioning of being?

Does non-becoming require non-existence?
Everything is conditioned. Why strive for non-conditioned-ness that doesn't exist?
Also why ponder about non-becoming? 'to become' is an expression in conventional launguage.. Stress arises only if one wants to become something that is either unattainable or not worthwhile or not worthwhile because of being unattainable. What is worthwhile to become?

Offline Solodris

  • Member
  • Posts: 349
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #103 on: July 30, 2017, 09:35:22 am »
According to the Buddha, craving for 3 things, in particular, causes rebirth, which is sensual pleasure, existence and non-existence. It is logical to think that craving for sensual pleasure and existence will cause rebirth, but how does craving for NON-existence causes rebirth? :r4wheel:

It's a good question, given that the the aim of Buddhist practice is non-becoming.  :wink1:

Even better questions are:

1. What does it mean to be liberated?
Depends on what you want to be liberated from if you want to be liberated.

2. How can rebirth result in non-becoming?
This question presupposes a special reality of re-birth that cannot be found in the word 'rebirth'.

As a conditioned being I would be under the impression that liberation is perhaps the non-conditioning of being?

Does non-becoming require non-existence?
Everything is conditioned. Why strive for non-conditioned-ness that doesn't exist?
Also why ponder about non-becoming? 'to become' is an expression in conventional launguage.. Stress arises only if one wants to become something that is either unattainable or not worthwhile or not worthwhile because of being unattainable. What is worthwhile to become?

One's own nature.

Thank you, it seems as though conventional language had to click with "private language" in order for it to actually make existential sense to me; for example: After my fourth visualisation meditation session I asked my teacher: "Have you ever meditated over a Yidam?", He replied "That's what we just did?" (Medicine Buddha for the curious people), and I simply stated back "Oh, so that's the definition.". Both of us walked away laughing.

My first question to my second visualisation teacher was "Where do you buy pants?".

I suppose the Sotapanna is the first person in the world to wake up one morning and say "Never again..." and actually mean it.

Theory is starting to move into practice in other words. Without the help of this forum I would have had nothing, as I clearly had nothing to lose when I got here. Sincerest gratitude, loving-kindness and endearment to all of those I had the good fortune to encounter on this very regretful event. I suppose a Zen person would say, "Thank you all for pointing out the path that literally leads nowhere, so that I may go from having nothing to having even less, sincerely. I'll be sure to offer the greatest magnitude of nothing as a gift to those who require less than little and even more to those who require much less than little by having more.".

*Puts on ring and disappears*

Offline Spiny Norman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5087
  • Cool baby yeah!
    • View Profile
Re: Craving for Non-Existence
« Reply #104 on: July 31, 2017, 01:57:24 am »
Everything is conditioned.

Which Buddhist schools assert this?  Certainly not all of them.   

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal