Author Topic: Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)  (Read 1144 times)

Offline ss213

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Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)
« on: January 29, 2015, 06:37:16 am »
Hi, I have a question regarding perceptions and ideas
- Perceptions are identified as mental Labels, that together with attention shape Views.
- Ideas are identified as being the object of the sixth sense, the intellect.

What i don't understand is the following.
1 - How are Perceptions related to the Intellect, and how are they different from Ideas?.
2 - Is "Perceiving perceptions" an action than generates kamma?
3 - How does intention condition attention and perceptions and how do Views condition Intention (and what role does the intellect play there)?

My thinking (non cannonical) is that Ideas are relations of perceptions, and that therefore the ability of the intelect is to relate perceptions, which requires attention to those perceptions. Ideas then define what can be accepted as ritgh or wrong views and tehrefore conditions future intentions.
However, I still do not know:
- how views condition Attention and perception
- what determines that Perception A arises instead of Perception B
- what determines that attention focuses on Perception C instead of perception D.


I might be wrong with all this, therefore I seek your help. When meditating I have trouble differentiating perceptions from ideas, so i will thankful if you can answer my questions.



Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2015, 07:03:01 am »
Although there's various definitions used for perception, the determining factor in most instances would be the analytical process that's being applied --- you might find the following article worth reading:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/perception-india/

PS: The intellect is normally not considered to be a sixth sense, with the noted exception of traditions where perceiving is described as the Universal Intellect (God).

Offline ss213

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Re: Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2015, 08:32:06 am »
If the intellect is not a sense, what is exacly the six sense of saḷāyatana (sense media)

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2015, 09:22:08 am »
It's a reference to the six sense bases:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sadayatana

I thought you were originally referring to "sixth sense" as a suprahuman sense, ect. --- sorry for the confusion.

Offline thegchokgreg

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Re: Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2015, 10:58:51 am »
Hi, i was trying to understand your question as i am not familiar with the vocabulary that you use about "perception" and "idea". (I am not an expert in pali translation but i found those translations a bit difficult, kind of a bit too far from the actual meaning of the original word and also too close from other meaning in other contexts) , well every translator has to make choice)

Anyaway then i found this webpage where i feel that everything is clearly explained.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.137.than.html

Offline ss213

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Re: Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2015, 05:56:19 am »
WHen I reffer to eprceptions i reffer to Samjna.

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2015, 06:21:48 am »
Your questions appear to be more orientated toward the Abhidhamma itself, so you might find the "Manual of Abhidhamma" helpful:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf

You might also want to read "Cetisakas" by Nina von Gorkom:

http://www.vipassana.info/cetasikas.html

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2015, 02:30:20 am »
Hi, I have a question regarding perceptions and ideas
- Perceptions are identified as mental Labels, that together with attention shape Views.
- Ideas are identified as being the object of the sixth sense, the intellect.


It might be useful to explore the distinction between perceiving and conceiving.  Perceiving is the initial stage of identification and recognition, followed by conceiving about that perception - all our assumptions, ideas and proliferation about the experiences we have, and particularly how those experiences create self-view, the sense of "me".

MNI, The Root Sequence, is worth a look. 
http://suttacentral.net/en/mn1

Offline Provider

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Re: Differences between perceptions and ideas (question)
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2015, 03:20:44 am »
Hi, I have a question regarding perceptions and ideas
- Perceptions are identified as mental Labels, that together with attention shape Views.
- Ideas are identified as being the object of the sixth sense, the intellect.


Good question, Mr/Mrs ss213.

In short, Atma would say "sanna" perception, mostly (in SOAsia) translated as memory, recollection is clear sanna khanda while idea is a (willingly) construct and Atma would classify it under sankhara-khanda, formation.
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