Author Topic: Mental Factors - Mental Formations  (Read 1335 times)

Offline ss213

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Mental Factors - Mental Formations
« on: December 03, 2014, 02:49:38 am »
Hi, in another topic (now clsoed), some of you used the follogin terms:

- mental formations as thoughts, emotions, defilements, etc...
- mental factors as thoughts, words, ideas, feelings, emotions...

My question is, where can I find this in the suttas and what is the pali word for mental formations/factors.

Thanks!!

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline ss213

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Re: Mental Factors - Mental Formations
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 08:21:46 am »
so basically mental factors = hindrances + jhana factors + 7 enlighment factors + indriya??

Sorry but I still do not get it... is it abidhama or can it be found on the discourse (mental formations/factors)??

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: Mental Factors - Mental Formations
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 10:03:29 am »
so basically mental factors = hindrances + jhana factors + 7 enlighment factors + indriya??

Sorry but I still do not get it... is it abidhama or can it be found on the discourse (mental formations/factors)??

Mental factors are basically any events which arise in the mind.  I doubt that the words would have a direct translation in pali or  sanskrit if that is what you are after.  Again, consult the Pali - English Dictionary if you have an interest.  As for the suttas, my suggestion would be to do what I just did and do a search for mental factors and read what is written in bot the commentaries and the suttas / sutras.  The jhanas are also forms of mental experience, and should not be confused in any way with experiences of nibbana / nirvana. 

One Pali word that comes to mind is  "Citta"....which roughly means thought, which is another mental factor.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Mental Factors - Mental Formations
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 12:19:52 pm »
One Pali word that comes to mind is  "Citta"....which roughly means thought, which is another mental factor.

Citta is one of three overlapping terms that used in the nikayas to refer to the mind, the other two being manas and vinnaṇa --- the Pali term for mental factors would be cetasika (Skt: caitasika).


so basically mental factors = hindrances + jhana factors + 7 enlighment factors + indriya??

Sorry but I still do not get it... is it abidhama or can it be found on the discourse (mental formations/factors)??

The Abhidhammattha-sangaha of Theravada tradition mentions 52 mental factors in 4 categories, while Abhidharma of Mahayana tradition lists 51 mental factors in 6 categories:

Theravada
7 universal mental factors
6 occasional mental factors
14 unwholesome mental factors
25 beautiful mental factors

Mahayana
5 universal mental factors
5 object-determining mental factors
11 virtuous mental factors
6 root unwholesome factors
20 secondary unwholesome factors
4 changeable mental factors


Since your question was specific to the Theravada tradition, you might want to download a PDF copy of this chart, as well as checkout the other resources provided on the website itself:

http://www.abhidhamma.com/Chart_Cetasika_en.pdf



Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: Mental Factors - Mental Formations
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2014, 06:39:15 am »
DK, thank you for the resources.  I had never seen these organized in this way before, Bhante' (admired and respected teacher)     :namaste:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline ss213

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Re: Mental Factors - Mental Formations
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2014, 10:03:03 am »
Thanks for the chart.
So if I am to understand propperly, every "thought, word, idea, feeling, emotios"are a form of those cetasikas??

In addition, by reading the pdf I came up with another doubt:
- How do they (mental factors) differ from the fourth frame of refference??
- And why is "worry" grouped with Hatred?

(I only seek the pali word for the suttas because the translators of the sources I use are diffrent and the word mental factors generates me doubts)

Thanks again!!

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Mental Factors - Mental Formations
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2014, 10:47:29 pm »
Quote
Why Issa, Macchariya and Kukkucca cannot arise at the same time?

Although these three cetasikas belong to the same group Dosa, and can arise only with dosa citta, they cannot arise at the same time—in a single cittaIssa (envy), Macchariya (stinginess), and Kukkucca (remorse) are `Aniyatayogi Cetasika' they arise sometimes and separately. So, when Issa arises in a person—at that very moment Macchariya and Kukkucca cannot arise; similar with the other two.

All cittas and cetasikas arise with object. And the citta and the cetasikas that arise at the same time must take the same object. Citta and cetasikas, if they have different objects arise in different moments. The objects of these three mental factors are different from one another. Therefore, they cannot arise at the same moment.

For e.g. macchariya is arising in a miser. He does not want to share his abundant wealth with anybody. The object of this macchariya is 'one's own wealth'. At that very moment, neither he can have Issa nor Kukkucca. The object of Issa is 'someone' who is in a better position than oneself in terms of wealth, education, etc. The object of kukkucca is the 'action' (done or not done) in the past. As their object is different, they should arise in different moments.


http://khemarama.com/wp-content/uploads/Q.A-Citta-Cetasika.pdf

 


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