Author Topic: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it  (Read 2419 times)

Offline lotus flower

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SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« on: July 08, 2013, 02:20:39 am »
Hello dear forum members!

I have some questions about the second jhana:
- is this the only technique for enter the second jhana?:
i focus the mind on delight. i don't focus on other things. only focus the mind on delight. is it the only second jhana technique? i heard about this technique from my teacher.

- i think it is very hard. what must I do with the thoughts??
i have got a lot of thoughts when i try the second jhana. but sometimes i don't thinking 1 minute, and focus the mind to delight one minute. but it is sometimes.
sometimes i have hours when i can't do 1 minute without thoughts.
i usually try the jhana on every day 2 or 3 hours, but sometimes 0 hour, sometimes 4 hours.
this meditation is very hard for me. focus the mind on breathing is easier than focus the mind to delight. (for me breathing meditations are easier)

- i often sleeping into this meditation and don't know why?
 :smack:

thank you for the replies!

Offline namumahaparinirvanasvaha

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2013, 02:27:42 am »
I didnt think you had to try a different technique to enter 2nd jhana.
I thought it was based upon deeper concentration and mindfulness from first to 2nd,all the way up to 4th.

(Im no meditation master)

Offline songhill

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2013, 10:59:55 am »
Quoting from the Pali Text Society’s Pali-English Dictionay, it is a good place to start from.

Quote
“It [jhâna] is the technical term for a special religious experience, reached in a certain order of mental states.  It was originally divided into four such states.  These may be summarized:  1.  The mystic with his mind free from sensuous and worldly ideas, concentrates his thoughts on some special subject (for instance, the impermanence of all things).  2.  Then uplifted above attention & reasoning, he experiences joy & ease of both body and mind.  3.  Then the bliss passes away, & he becomes suffused with a sense of ease and  4.  he becomes aware of pure lucidity of mind & equanimity of heart” (p. 286).

Offline dhammaseeker51

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 02:26:19 pm »
A better place to start from is meditation on the breath...

with Metta

Offline songhill

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2013, 05:57:10 pm »
A better place to start from is meditation on the breath...

with Metta

There is some controversy on that one. The Pali seems to be saying that our sati or mindfulness must be parimukha, that is, before or anterior to the in and out breath. Following the in and out breath would be posterior and clearly the wrong approach. The breather, in other words, is spiritually separating himself from the temporal, breathing body which is subject to decay and death.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 06:15:43 am »
I have some questions about the second jhana:
- is this the only technique for enter the second jhana?:
i focus the mind on delight. i don't focus on other things. only focus the mind on delight. is it the only second jhana technique? i heard about this technique from my teacher.


In my experience jhana arises naturally when the mind is fully concentrated with sustained samatha practice.  Some teachers talk about looking for piti and sukha, but I'm not sure how that works if they aren't there to start with.  I suspect there are no short cuts.
A lot of people use mindfulness of breathing ( anapanasati ) to develop samatha, but there other options, including the kasinas.
If you want to find our more about jhana this might be worth a look: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/search_results.html?cx=015061908441090246348%3Aal1bklhbjbi&cof=FORID%3A9%3BNB%3A1&ie=UTF-8&q=jhana
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 06:20:25 am by Spiny Norman »

Offline lotus flower

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 09:49:59 am »
A better place to start from is meditation on the breath...

with Metta


but not always....  i think.


I have some questions about the second jhana:
- is this the only technique for enter the second jhana?:
i focus the mind on delight. i don't focus on other things. only focus the mind on delight. is it the only second jhana technique? i heard about this technique from my teacher.


In my experience jhana arises naturally when the mind is fully concentrated with sustained samatha practice.  Some teachers talk about looking for piti and sukha, but I'm not sure how that works if they aren't there to start with.  I suspect there are no short cuts.
A lot of people use mindfulness of breathing ( anapanasati ) to develop samatha, but there other options, including the kasinas.
If you want to find our more about jhana this might be worth a look: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/search_results.html?cx=015061908441090246348%3Aal1bklhbjbi&cof=FORID%3A9%3BNB%3A1&ie=UTF-8&q=jhana


thank you.
yeah "looking for piti and sukha" but it isn't easy always. very hard often.

i don't know kasinas. i haven't got informations about kasinas. can you send a website link?
or anybody?
thank you.

Offline ground

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 11:03:05 am »
This is a reliable source of information about jhanas

A Critical Analysis of the Jhanas in Theravada Buddhist Meditation

 :fu:

Offline Transition

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2013, 11:26:47 am »
Ground...this is a great resource...thanks so much

Offline lotus flower

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 01:13:01 pm »

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 02:26:32 am »
i don't know kasinas. i haven't got informations about kasinas. can you send a website link?

Just google "kasina" and see what you get.  Basically it involves looking at an element or colour and developing an internal image upon which to concentrate.  But to be honest, I'd just stick with the breath, it's reliable and straightforward.

Offline lotus flower

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2013, 09:48:01 pm »
i don't know kasinas. i haven't got informations about kasinas. can you send a website link?

Just google "kasina" and see what you get.  Basically it involves looking at an element or colour and developing an internal image upon which to concentrate.  But to be honest, I'd just stick with the breath, it's reliable and straightforward.

okay, thank you very much :)

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 02:51:26 am »
i don't know kasinas. i haven't got informations about kasinas. can you send a website link?

Just google "kasina" and see what you get.  Basically it involves looking at an element or colour and developing an internal image upon which to concentrate.  But to be honest, I'd just stick with the breath, it's reliable and straightforward.

okay, thank you very much :)

If you continue with anapanasati then I'd recommend keeping it very simple.  Just pay attention to the breath, nothing more, nothing less.  The mind will wander, that's normal, when it does just let go of the thought / image / feeling and gently return to the breath.
Give it time, samatha will develop.  Don't worry too much about achieving jhana etc, these things will develop in their own good time.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 02:57:20 am by Spiny Norman »

Offline Ananda10

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2014, 08:22:45 am »
Hello dear forum members!

I have some questions about the second jhana:
- is this the only technique for enter the second jhana?:
i focus the mind on delight. i don't focus on other things. only focus the mind on delight. is it the only second jhana technique? i heard about this technique from my teacher.

- i think it is very hard. what must I do with the thoughts??
i have got a lot of thoughts when i try the second jhana. but sometimes i don't thinking 1 minute, and focus the mind to delight one minute. but it is sometimes.
sometimes i have hours when i can't do 1 minute without thoughts.
i usually try the jhana on every day 2 or 3 hours, but sometimes 0 hour, sometimes 4 hours.
this meditation is very hard for me. focus the mind on breathing is easier than focus the mind to delight. (for me breathing meditations are easier)

- i often sleeping into this meditation and don't know why?
 :smack:

thank you for the replies!

With the stilling of thinking and pondering by gaining internal serene confidence and unification of mind without thinking and pondering, with rapture and pleasure of concentration one enters upon and abides in the second jhana.

Offline dhammarelax

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Re: SECOND JHANA - i have some questions about it
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2014, 06:40:35 am »
Hi Lotus flower

The best place to start getting in the 2nd Jhana is the 1rst Jhana, which ever method you are using if you dont have the 1rst Jhana then getting in to the 2nd is going to be hard and I am not sure if the effort will be fruitful have a look at this link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an09/an09.035.than.html, if you have the 1rst jhana you have to develop it and then naturally you will get in to the 2nd, are you able to get in to the 1rst jhana without problems?

Another very relevant aspect of the jhana and how to progress along them is what to do with the thoughts,distractions or hindrances, its very important to understand that the hindrances are your friends they are showing you how the process of dependent origination works and where your attachments lie, when they arise its ok for them to arise they are offering an opportunity of progress to the next jhana, what you need to do is to recognize them as a a hindrance (the classic list is lust, ill will, doubt, restlessness and anxiety and sloth and torpor) then release them as in leaving them on their own, then relax to let of of the craving smile and come back to your object of meditation and repeat the process if needed. More info on this method can be found here: http://www.dhammasukha.org/the-6rs.html     


with Metta
dhammarelax

 


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