Author Topic: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?  (Read 629 times)

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« on: June 18, 2017, 01:28:31 pm »
Dhamma faithful & students

Many good Buddhists chant the words: "Sabbe satta sukhita hontu: May all beings be happy".

In the Samyutta Nikaya, the Satta Sutta (SN 23.2) is translated as follows:


Quote
'A being,' lord. 'A being,' it's said. To what extent is one said to be 'a being'?

Any desire, passion, delight or craving for form, Radha: when one is caught up there, tied up there, one is said to be 'a being.'

Any desire, passion, delight or craving for feeling... perception... fabrications...

Any desire, passion, delight or craving for consciousness, Radha: when one is caught up there, tied up there, one is said to be 'a being.'

Just as when boys or girls are playing with little sand castles:as long as they are not free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever & craving for those little sand castles, that's how long they have fun with those sand castles, enjoy them, treasure them, feel possessive of them.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn23/sn23.002.than.html


Even more non-conventional, SN 5.10 is translated as:

Quote
Why now do you assume 'a being'?
Mara, have you grasped a view?
This is a heap of sheer constructions:
Here no being is found.

Just as, with an assemblage of parts,
The word 'chariot' is used,
So, when the aggregates are present,
There's the convention 'a being.'

It's only suffering that comes to be,
Suffering that stands and falls away.
Nothing but suffering comes to be,
Nothing but suffering ceases.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.010.bodh.html


So what do we think the word "a being" ("satta") means here, according to these suttas? 

:namaste:




Offline Solodris

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2017, 01:43:17 pm »
The one clinging to the aggregate of consciousness is a being.

The one clinging to the aggregate of mental formation is a being.

The one clinging to the aggregate of perception is a being.

The one clinging to the aggregate of sensation is a being.

The one clinging to the aggregate of form is a being.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 01:15:55 am »
So what do we think the word "a being" ("satta") means here, according to these suttas? 


Element, this seems like a rhetorical question, so maybe you should just tell what you think it means.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 01:29:13 am by Spiny Norman »

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 01:45:57 am »
We used to chant "All beings.... situated throughout space" as part of our puja. I think it was to make sure that all beings meant all beings, whatever form we could imagine them to be. It tied into the reading of the Heart Sutra during the puja, and as a wish to help all beings reach enlightenment.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline AlwaysDayAfterYesterday

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2017, 07:13:32 am »
I have a simple way to see this by arranging the very word you ask about into a construction of the 10 dimensions of Mind, Time and Space, which are all one.  Do a bit of contemplation on the fact that your first face before descending into Tamas is Sattva.  At birth, you are Tamas, then Rajas as you live and raise a family, then Sattva at the end as you contemplate your life.  Above this, each life you live is a progression between, ever rising back to Sattva, which is also defined as Truth.  Eventually, your birth here is Sattva from the beginning, which is parallel to the 10 powers of the Bodhi (Tree) Sattva sitting under his own tree.  Once, he was a branch.  Then, the fruit.  Once a worm is hanging from the tree, what does it become?  It first consumes the tree.  It then becomes the tree, the forest, the earth, the solar system, the galaxy and then the Multiversed being.  See into this by the Gunas.  Arrange them in order, then see the 10 directions. 

See the attached PDF below.  To read it, download and expand.  To understand, do the same. 

« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 07:09:53 am by AlwaysDayAfterYesterday, Reason: Revised Attachment v. 1.0.8 attached... »
Time and Space are one.  The day after yesterday is now.  You always have time to forget the past by building the future.  The best way to predict the future is to create it.  When do you begin?  All of time and space for you to grow, develop, cultivate and remake yourself again and again.  Seek, Find and Adaptation.

Offline Solodris

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2017, 03:51:28 pm »
So what do we think the word "a being" ("satta") means here, according to these suttas? 


Element, this seems like a rhetorical question, so maybe you should just tell what you think it means.

A being is one in conduct with the aggregates, such as mental formation. Non-being is retreating into emptiness.

Offline Solodris

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2017, 07:23:37 pm »
Form is conduct in wind.

Sensation is conduct in water.

Perception is conduct in earth.

Mental formations is conduct in fire.

Consciousness is conduct in ether.

This is the integration of a being.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2017, 05:30:53 am »
The one clinging to the aggregate of consciousness is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of mental formation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of perception is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of sensation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of form is a being.

But a "being" is really a bunch of clinging aggregates.

Offline Solodris

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2017, 06:10:01 am »
The one clinging to the aggregate of consciousness is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of mental formation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of perception is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of sensation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of form is a being.

But a "being" is really a bunch of clinging aggregates.

Such is the integral parts of being.

Offline AlwaysDayAfterYesterday

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2017, 06:24:58 am »
The one clinging to the aggregate of consciousness is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of mental formation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of perception is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of sensation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of form is a being.

But a "being" is really a bunch of clinging aggregates.

What are the aggregates clinging to?  This is the question to be answered.  No weapon can pierce the life that informs you.  No fire can burn it.  No water can drench it.  No wind can make it dry. 


https://youtu.be/_B4Z1PB97KY
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 06:27:42 am by AlwaysDayAfterYesterday »
Time and Space are one.  The day after yesterday is now.  You always have time to forget the past by building the future.  The best way to predict the future is to create it.  When do you begin?  All of time and space for you to grow, develop, cultivate and remake yourself again and again.  Seek, Find and Adaptation.

Offline Solodris

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2017, 06:29:00 am »
The one clinging to the aggregate of consciousness is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of mental formation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of perception is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of sensation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of form is a being.

But a "being" is really a bunch of clinging aggregates.

What are the aggregates clinging to?  This is the question to be answered.  No weapon can pierce the life that informs you.  No fire can burn it.  No water can drench it.  No wind can make it dry. 


https://youtu.be/_B4Z1PB97KY

Being.

Offline AlwaysDayAfterYesterday

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2017, 07:02:08 am »
The one clinging to the aggregate of consciousness is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of mental formation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of perception is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of sensation is a being.
The one clinging to the aggregate of form is a being.

But a "being" is really a bunch of clinging aggregates.

What are the aggregates clinging to?  This is the question to be answered.  No weapon can pierce the life that informs you.  No fire can burn it.  No water can drench it.  No wind can make it dry. 


https://youtu.be/_B4Z1PB97KY

Being.

Sattva!  Yes. 

Yes, and that being itself is all beings in relative as well.  The part contains the whole, the whole is in each part.  Absolute is not a house divided, nor is it ever idle.  Within the action of its members, the whole rests.  Both.  No contradiction.  No lost self in the identity of all in all. 

There is a point and intent for the essence of Absolute MU. This is why realization of both sides of relative require both guest and host; both self and other; both self and Absolute.  The goal is All in All, not a divided house, which is the essence of division into relative for the purpose of learning absolute from the parts, better known as Yoga (union with equality).  We reconcile this by recognizing the equal reality of prakrti and purusa as the expressions of the All-Self, yet the All-Self is one.  This includes the relative comprising the All-Self--you.  The one defect in the All-Self is there for a reason.  Intellect, Intelligence, Mind, Knowledge, Wisdom and the like are light invisible to the senses.  This renders the All-Self invisible to our perception, allowing us to freely live within its ever-watching eye.  Time / Space are also relative, not only to each other, but to the whole of reality.  Time and space are also impermanent, just as the self here will perish.  This in no way assumes the higher self can perish.  In fact, the relative nature of self and other ensures the eternal nature of both. 

I have a good outline of this in relation to the Triloka and Gunas.  Attached below, but you must download and view on a viewer to enlarge.  This is the latest revision.  Nearly every tradition in the world claims this reality will perish and be born again, revealing all of us in our true being and in a pure land of rebirth.  Just as a being dies and is reborn, the All-Self is our mirror for this process.  She is the last to remake the womb and start over, birthing us all out of this womb. 

« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 07:11:21 am by AlwaysDayAfterYesterday »
Time and Space are one.  The day after yesterday is now.  You always have time to forget the past by building the future.  The best way to predict the future is to create it.  When do you begin?  All of time and space for you to grow, develop, cultivate and remake yourself again and again.  Seek, Find and Adaptation.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017, 01:50:21 pm »
But a "being" is really a bunch of clinging aggregates.

This seems to be saying the aggregates cling, like when a small lost puppy dog clings to a human or when five different baby ducks cling to their mother.

What are the aggregates clinging to? 

How can the aggregates of form (matter), feeling, perception & consciousness cling?

SN 22.81 seems to explain only the sankhara aggregate (when under the influence of ignorance) can cling & this sankhara aggregate clings to itself & the other for aggregates as "self" or "a being". To quote:

Quote
There is the case where a person — who is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma — assumes form... feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness to be a self. That assumption is a fabrication. Now what is the cause, what is the origination, what is the birth, what is the coming-into-existence of that fabrication? To an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person, touched by that which is felt born of contact with ignorance, craving arises. That fabrication is born of that. SN 22.81


 :dharma:

Offline Pixie

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2017, 02:41:35 pm »
Quote
This seems to be saying the aggregates cling, like when a small lost puppy dog clings to a human or when five different baby ducks cling to their mother.]This seems to be saying the aggregates cling, like when a small lost puppy dog clings to a human or when five different baby ducks cling to their mother.

Quite so, Mr Raptor, - or may I call you Vissudhi ?  :namaste:

PS

Are those two recent "selfies" in your avatar?

« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 03:09:07 pm by Pixie »
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: SN 23.2: What exactly is "a being" ("satta")?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 06:54:55 pm »
Are those two recent "selfies" in your avatar?

  :foryou: My selfies  are <3 attractive  <3. ?   :focus:

 


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