Author Topic: In Nibbana Do Aggregates Persist but Don't Arise?  (Read 1172 times)

Offline Avrax

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Re: In Nibbana Do Aggregates Persist but Don't Arise?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 06:26:33 pm »
Thank you ground.

Offline pureleaf

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Re: In Nibbana Do Aggregates Persist but Don't Arise?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 12:11:45 pm »
It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,
the Truth, the Other Shore, the Subtle,
the Everlasting, the Invisible, the Undiversified,
Peace, the Deathless, the Blest, Safety,
the Wonderful, the Marvellous,
Nibbæna, Purity, Freedom,
the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.

~ S 43.1-44

Offline pureleaf

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Re: In Nibbana Do Aggregates Persist but Don't Arise?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 12:16:08 pm »
Then I thought: ‘Why, being myself subject to birth, aging, ailment, death, sorrow and defilement, do I seek after what is also subject to these things?

Suppose, being myself subject to these things, seeing danger in them, I sought after the unborn, unaging, unailing, deathless, sorrowless, undefiled supreme release from bondage, Nibbæna?

~ M 26.13

Offline Lotusmile

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Re: In Nibbana Do Aggregates Persist but Don't Arise?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2018, 05:45:02 am »
Hello All,

I have been trying to post the following question in thread that discussed this because probably someone has already asked it but I haven't found the thread (using the “search”) that talks about it. So, here is my question.

When the Buddha says that aggregates cease (see below), what does he mean? Do they dissolve, do they just stop arising, or what?

In one instance he makes a difference between clinging and non-clinging aggregates. https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.048.than.html
Do non-clinging aggregates are the one that stay after one is liberated?


"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."

Thank you!
The very ignorance as mentioned which is liken to clouds or aggregates that temporarily blocked the sunlight from fully and omnipresently. The nature of all beings is same as buddha or omnipresent sunlight. Once the clouds dispersed and vanished, the sunlight appears fully. The sunlight did not hide itself but just temporarily prevented by clouds to be shining fully

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: In Nibbana Do Aggregates Persist but Don't Arise?
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2018, 02:18:59 am »
Hello All,

I have been trying to post the following question in thread that discussed this because probably someone has already asked it but I haven't found the thread (using the “search”) that talks about it. So, here is my question.

When the Buddha says that aggregates cease (see below), what does he mean? Do they dissolve, do they just stop arising, or what?

In one instance he makes a difference between clinging and non-clinging aggregates. https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.048.than.html
Do non-clinging aggregates are the one that stay after one is liberated?


"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."

Thank you!
The very ignorance as mentioned which is liken to clouds or aggregates that temporarily blocked the sunlight from fully and omnipresently. The nature of all beings is same as buddha or omnipresent sunlight. Once the clouds dispersed and vanished, the sunlight appears fully. The sunlight did not hide itself but just temporarily prevented by clouds to be shining fully

The suttas distinguish between clinging aggregates and non-clinging aggregates - it is only the clinging aggregates which cease.  The aggregates are just a model of experience, and if they ceased completely there would be no experience.

Note that the usual definition of Nibbana in the suttas relates to cessation of the taints, ie cessation of craving, aversion and ignorance.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 02:21:07 am by Dairy Lama »
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