Author Topic: The True Dhamma and its lifespan  (Read 1246 times)

Offline t

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The True Dhamma and its lifespan
« on: March 03, 2010, 01:37:51 am »
Kimila Sutta
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"What is the cause, Lord, what is the reason why, when a Tathagata has become totally unbound (has entered total Nibbana), the true Dhamma does not last a long time?"
Quote
"Kimila, there is the case where, when a Tathagata has become totally unbound, the monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers
live without respect, without deference, for the Teacher;
live without respect, without deference, for the Dhamma... the Sangha... the Training... concentration... heedfulness;
live without respect, without deference, for hospitality.
This is the cause, this is the reason why, when a Tathagata has become totally unbound, the true Dhamma does not last a long time."

Saddhammapatirupaka Sutta
Quote
"These five downward-leading qualities tend to the confusion and disappearance of the true Dhamma. Which five?
There is the case where the monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers live without respect, without deference, for the Teacher.
They live without respect, without deference, for the Dhamma... for the Sangha... for the Training... for concentration.
These are the five downward-leading qualities that tend to the confusion and disappearance of the true Dhamma.

What do you think? Your  :twocents: :anjali:

Maitri  :namaste:

Offline cooran

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Re: The True Dhamma and its lifespan
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 11:37:43 pm »
Hello , 

These may be of interest:

Confusing the True Dhamma Anguttara Nikaya 5:154
These five things, monks, incline toward the confusion and the
disappearance of the true dhamma. What five? When the monks:
1. do not carefully hear the dhamma,
2. do not carefully learn the dhamma,
3. do not carefully retain the dhamma,
4. do not carefully investigate the significance of the retained dhamma, and
5. do not carefully know what is significant and practice the dhamma according to dhamma.

Anguttara Nikaya 5:155
These five things, monks, incline toward the confusion and the disappearance of the true dhamma. What five? When the monks:
1. do not learn the dhamma: [i.e., the] discourses, poems, refrains, verses, utterances, stories, birth-tales, marvels, expositions;
2. do not teach to others in detail the dhamma as they have heard it and as they have understood it;
3. do not make others speak in detail the dhamma as they have heard it and as they have understood it;
4. do not recite together in detail the dhamma as they have heard it and as they have understood it;
5. do not mentally think about and ponder upon, do not consider with the mind, the dhamma as they have heard it and as they have understood it.

Anguttara Nikaya 5:156
These five things, monks, incline toward the confusion and the disappearance of the true dhamma. What five?
1. When monks mis-understand the discourses they have learned, mis-arranging the words and letters, and then misconstrue the meaning of the mis-arranged words and letters.
2. When monks mis-speak, do things that constitute mis-behavior, are endowed with a lack of patience/forbearance, and possess little talent for grasping the teaching.
3. When the monks who have learned much, who have received what has been passed down, who have retained the dhamma, the vinaya and the manuals, —they do not make others carefully speak the discourses; and because of their lapse the discourses become something with its roots severed, without a refuge.
4. When the senior monks live in luxury, take the lead in falling into laxity, lay aside the responsibility of dwelling in seclusion, and no longer put forth effort: to attain what has not yet been attained, to achieve what has not yet been achieved, to experience what has not yet been experienced.
5. When the community is divided. When the community is divided, then there is shouting at one another, there is blaming one another, there is closing in on one another, there is giving up on one another. Those who are not clear do not get clear there, and the few who are clear become otherwise.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Offline ABC

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Re: The True Dhamma and its lifespan
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 02:34:46 am »
....in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.

"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.

"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."

Ani Sutta: The Peg

 :dharma:
Therefore, Ananda, engage with me friends and not as opponents. That will be for your long-term well-being & happiness - MN 122

Offline vinasp

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Re: The True Dhamma and its lifespan
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2010, 06:30:44 am »
Hi t,

 My own opinion is that enlightened individuals today tend not to make any such claim. So it is difficult to decide whether there has been any decline in the numbers of such people.

 The door to the deathless is still there. It is open. Anyone who is ready to pay the price can go through. What has changed?

[ not many are willing to pay the price - it has always been so. ]

 Best wishes, Vincent.

 


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