Which aggregate "contains" memory?

[Spiny le Norman]

Is it "in" the perception aggregate?  I say this because memory is a large factor in perception.   What do you think?

CP

[Tsongkhapafan]

It's mental factor 'mindfulness' which is part of compositional factors.

[Bodhisatta2012]

My experience is that it is a "field property" (as in electro-magnetic field) of the total aggregates, as each aggregate is dependent upon the other.

About the inseparability of the groups it is said:

''Whatever, o brother, there exists of feeling, of perception and of mental constructions, these things are associated, not dissociated, and it is impossible to separate one from the other and show their difference. For whatever one feels, one perceives; and whatever one perceives, of this one is conscious" (M. 43).

Further: "Impossible is it for anyone to explain the passing out of one existence and the entering into a new existence, or the growth, increase and development of consciousness independent of materiality, feeling, perception and mental constructions" (S. XII, 53)

For the inseparability and mutual conditionality of the 4 mental groups s. paccaya (6, 7).

source:  http://what-buddha-said.net/library/DPPN/wtb/g_m/khandha.htm

http://what-buddha-said.net/library/DPPN/wtb/n_r/paccaya.htm

[Spiny le Norman]

It's mental factor 'mindfulness' which is part of compositional factors.

Thanks - do you know which aggregate these are in?

Spiny

[Spiny le Norman]

My experience is that it is a "field property" (as in electro-magnetic field) of the total aggregates, as each aggregate is dependent upon the other.

Thanks, you could be right.  My reason for asking the question was the awareness that memory seems to be central in the sense of continuity of "I".  You know that feeling when you wake up from a deep sleep and there is a brief period of "who, what, where?", and then the memories flood back in and you remember who are are?  Sort of like that.

Spiny

[francis]

I don’t think any of the aggregates contain memory.  That’s the whole point, the aggregates being empty of Self.

[Yeshe]

Which aggregate "contains" memory?


I used to know....................let me see..........nope, forgotten.    LOL


One of the aggregates.  Mind contains memory. Find Mind and you will find memory. ;)

[Spiny le Norman]

I don’t think any of the aggregates contain memory.  That’s the whole point, the aggregates being empty of Self.

But our memories clearly have some kind of "existence" in our mind. 

Spiny

[Spiny le Norman]

Find Mind and you will find memory. ;)

Yes, it's definitely in there somewhere.

Spiny

[Bodhisatta2012]

Memory in humans has been demonstrated as bio-electro-chemical in nature.  Cells contain the chemicals which carry the charges which are passed on from one vast network of cells to other vast networks of cells all interconnected by axons and dendrites. Neurophysiology is busy about studying and locating various functional centers in the brain. 

source for research and understanding:  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&ei=Z9GDS8-xC8KVtgeq6dzjAg&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CBcQBSgA&q=Neurophysiological+studies+of+the+brain&spell=1

Buddha had this covered when he stated that we cannot separate the physical from the mental.  As (I) stated previously: "Mind arises as a field, secondarily visible as a measurable field using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and nuclear magnetic resonance imaging (NMRI). Once these brain centers show activity as evidenced by heat caused by blood flow enrichment, and electrochemical activity along the axons and dendrites of glial cells in the human brain and associated with various tasks correlations are made and functions are associated.  From this activity arises the electro-magnetic field property, which we call "mind".  To put it in Buddha's terms, "From form arises consciousness."

source:  http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html

§ 16. Conditional Relations. "From the origination of nutriment comes the origination of form. From the cessation of nutriment comes the cessation of form... From the origination of contact comes the origination of feeling. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling... From the origination of contact comes the origination of perception. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of perception... From the origination of contact comes the origination of fabrications. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of fabrications... From the origination of name-&-form comes the origination of consciousness. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of consciousness."

— SN 22.57
 

I don’t think any of the aggregates contain memory.  That’s the whole point, the aggregates being empty of Self.

But our memories clearly have some kind of "existence" in our mind. 

Spiny

[Tsongkhapafan]

It's mental factor 'mindfulness' which is part of compositional factors.

Thanks - do you know which aggregate these are in?

Spiny

Hi Spiny,

Compositional factors is one of the five aggregates, perhaps you know it by another name?  It's basically all the mental factors excluding feelings and discrimination (49 mental factors).  Mindfulness' function is to hold an object with which it has already become familiar and to prevent distraction in terms of the mind wandering away from the object.  It therefore serves as the basis of concentration.

This information comes from the 'Lorig' teachings on the nature and function of the mind.  My information comes from 'Understanding the Mind' by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (Tharpa publications)

[Spiny le Norman]

Compositional factors is one of the five aggregates, perhaps you know it by another name?  It's basically all the mental factors excluding feelings and discrimination (49 mental factors).  Mindfulness' function is to hold an object with which it has already become familiar and to prevent distraction in terms of the mind wandering away from the object.  It therefore serves as the basis of concentration.

Oh, I see.  Yes, I usually refer to compositional factors as "mental formations".  When asking about "memory", I was referring to the ordinary psychological memories that we all have of past events.  While there is an element of remembering in sati ( "remembering to be mindful" ), this seems to me to be a different thing. I hope I'm not missing your point here.

Spiny

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Spiny,

I think different aspects of it might sit under formations, and some under perception... but I'm not totally sure.

What I do know is that it too is not self, not-I, and not worth clinging to.

Metta,
Retro.

[Spiny le Norman]

What I do know is that it too is not self, not-I, and not worth clinging to.

Yes, definitely.  Though it's good to remember a few practical things like my name, where I live and whether I turned the gas off (!), I would quite happily get rid of my memories - I think it would be quite liberating to develop amnesia.

Spiny

[Bodhisatta2012]

Have you considered becoming a politician?  They seem to be very good at forgetting what has happened in the past.

What I do know is that it too is not self, not-I, and not worth clinging to.

Yes, definitely.  Though it's good to remember a few practical things like my name, where I live and whether I turned the gas off (!), I would quite happily get rid of my memories - I think it would be quite liberating to develop amnesia.

Spiny