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Archives => Lifestyles => Vegetarianism => Topic started by: Karma Sonam on November 30, 2011, 04:32:05 pm

Title: Soya Products
Post by: Karma Sonam on November 30, 2011, 04:32:05 pm
I've hit a bit of a wall in my attempts to move closer to veganism.  Turns out soya messes with my body chemistry :disappoint:
I tried soya milk and "yoghurts" - really liked them and was looking forward to trying other soya products when 6 weeks in it became really obvious that soya and I aren't getting on.

I'm on rice milk now (bit too sweet but hey ho...)  can anyone suggest any other non dairy, non soya products?  I'm thinking cheeses, spreads, "yoghurts"  that sort of thing. 

How do other people get on?  All the vegans I know (all 2 of them!) use soya quite a bit, so I am at a bit of a loss....

Many thanks
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: pickledpitbull on November 30, 2011, 05:27:33 pm
Daiya Foods cheese products are made with tapioca and canola oil.  Galaxy Foods makes a melting cheese out of rice starch.  Dr. Cow makes tree-nut cheeses.  And if you're on the ramen noodle budget, some processed cheese "products" are made with vegetable oil - usually the really cheap ones. 

Almond and hemp milks are good substitutes for soy milk, and have a little more body than rice milk.  Coconut milk is tasty, too.

Hummus is a great spread, and you can go with nut butters, as well.  Not cheesy, but good for knoshing with crackers.

If you just want something to sprinkle on your pasta, nutritional yeast is a good one.  Cheese sauce can be made with raw cashews, I hear. 

Real cheese is hard to imitate - if anybody knows of a good sub for it, I'm all ears because I'm a cheese junkie.

Peace
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on November 30, 2011, 06:44:31 pm
What is the reason why you try to be vegan? To try to still pleasure like before in thinking you do something good? Wouldn't it be better to work on the real problem and accept what ever is given and reduce to seek for what is grasped, rather to wast time and energy in a unhealthy style of live? *smile*

As you see, the actually problem is that you like this or than taste. This problem would not be solved in this way.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: pickledpitbull on November 30, 2011, 07:07:03 pm
@karma,

Eat what you want.  If you want to eat vegan, then go for it.  You don't need a reason.

Peace.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on November 30, 2011, 07:16:46 pm
Yes, eat without special reason. Pickledpitbull kicked the point. Moderate just to provide your body health and alive. *smile*
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on November 30, 2011, 07:26:58 pm
How do other people get on?  All the vegans I know (all 2 of them!) use soya quite a bit, so I am at a bit of a loss....
As to soya product I am consuming soya milk and soya flour and have no problem with that. Abandoning dairy products and meat has improved my well-being and my practice.
Proteins may be the main issue when going vegan but I think there are some good alternatives like nuts, beans, lens, potatoes. Potatoes have only low protein contents but these are of very high quality.

Other issues may be calcium and vitamine B12. Watch these.


Kind regards
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on November 30, 2011, 10:33:28 pm
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSss7iQsSWUYaqVsTPPzbkMSECv-4xNLUZnqrlZWfi5VlOHQHK97rSViy-x)

(http://www.greenpeace.org/international/ReSizes/Small/Global/international/planet-2/image/2009/4/amazonforsoya.jpg)
Soya production in Brazil (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/features/amazon-mapping-200109/)

(http://[url=http://cdn.thegreenestdollar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/soybean94c3946.jpg]http://cdn.thegreenestdollar.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/soybean94c3946.jpg[/url])
be good business: The Greenest Dollar Save Money. Save the Environment. Be Happy. (http://www.thegreenestdollar.com/2009/02/soy-based-foam-insulation-what-it-is-and-why-you-should-use-it/)

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkF4b0xDz8iKuf-nmmqFjopfD51hRcZYdhqBjTJrWDgKYJaX-g-A)
effective!

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFaaH67tk5-BimyCn--HojlS-sGHIQVwbdjYUFyo1OEaY7Aa-aH3vW9MrK)

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2Aq1U0mMqZJm5Ig_SsI1RtrJGKSPHG2PkPoKJbyGo91Gb0iV1)
direct to your home

Good for your practice and well being:
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmLGpG-yUuReILsGwHL71umTwXUlIACHL3Cp6glKqm3040Gs4-SQ)
(http://[url=http://drstevebest.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/forest-burning.jpg?w=300&h=216]http://drstevebest.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/forest-burning.jpg?w=300&h=216[/url])

victims of war for business to support a healthy live
(http://drstevebest.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/poached_elephant.jpg?w=300&h=210)

better future perspectives thought "development" and employment creation
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzUHhe4nBQYi5xM6KWIb2irwhWqWwkSPCzpjclv2H-MSMryZ8EbQ)

Dana possibilities for Compassionate people
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQL-CRpxg1Yb6z1kz18xjBaS9cl9yBDLwPIhqHg6FPfWIAtbTmmZw)

Side business for productivity: the environmental impact of health and good planned food (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_pesticides)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRK3izKvEzRZn9UmH8iOkhbIh7n_c8-fxR-R5a89o3fxwtPoFEG_Q)
(http://[url=http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJuhftWueJn6E1y_D8RW5uFKpa7TObgpv1Lclad4lupBaRS-YZgSlh4kxX]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJuhftWueJn6E1y_D8RW5uFKpa7TObgpv1Lclad4lupBaRS-YZgSlh4kxX[/url])

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXK9rLLbCXlKLxdqMVH1dNRCuqRecPdxRAPf9PiGFAE0zKlFOf)

A little study in between (http://www.fcrn.org.uk/sites/default/files/fruitveg_paper_final.pdf)

And that is the reason, why compromises never lead to an easier live and peace. *smile*


Fresh fruit import to us doubled in the last 15 years (http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/fts/2007/08Aug/fts32801/fts32801.pdf)

Rate of change of primary forest loss, 1990-200 (http://rainforests.mongabay.com/defor_index.htm)
(http://www.mongabay.com/images/rainforests/per_change_rate.gif)

more possibilities for Dana:
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSq6a1GPPTs3OQd_tZndXviAEKuET7gr7YwbVobJ0thSnLKZSsLhg)

All in all, its a perfect paramis perfecting producing system. In this way you can reduce suffering of your self and others and gain endless possibilities to let go by making Dana. *smile* Unsupported, non dual.

I heard that some faith in Dharma is useful to change one self and the world. And ineffective self torture is nonsense and causes also suffering for others.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on November 30, 2011, 11:15:07 pm
All that is well known Hanzze.

What you are referring to is the soya that is cultivated for animal breeding and feeding. Often genetically modified. A multitude of soya is needed to feed the animals for meat production.




Besides consuming the right products it is also important where the consumer products are coming from and under what conditions they are cultivated and harvested and processed :)


The world is a complex one, Hanzze  :teehee:
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on November 30, 2011, 11:26:42 pm
Hanzze, you better go begging on alms rounds and leave the responsibility to others :wink1:
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on November 30, 2011, 11:30:53 pm
So you think that taking what is given is less responsibility as to search for a way to maintain pleasure? *smile* Maybe one could be not the good man among them who like to be good? Difficult really difficult this thing of responsibility.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on November 30, 2011, 11:33:12 pm
So you think that taking what is given is less responsibility as to search for a way to maintain pleasure? *smile* Maybe one could be not the good man among them who like to be good? Difficult really difficult this thing of responsibility.

I think you should better go forth and/or into the forest and tell your nonsens to the monkeys :om:
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on November 30, 2011, 11:38:45 pm
As you might know, you already had eaten the forest so you must live with this karma fruits which might arise with a monkey *smile* Things are always self made and would not touch if haven't been caused by one self.

"The world is a complex one"
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on November 30, 2011, 11:41:06 pm
So you think that taking what is given is less responsibility as to search for a way to maintain pleasure? *smile* Maybe one could be not the good man among them who like to be good? Difficult really difficult this thing of responsibility.

I think you should better go forth and/or into the forest and tell your nonsens to the monkeys :om:

Wait I have forgotten an important term:

I think you should better go forth and/or into the forest and tell your irresponsible nonsens to the monkeys :om:

Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on November 30, 2011, 11:44:04 pm
Things may have conflicts and this might be the reason:

Quote
For oneself, for others

"Of two people who practice the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, having a sense of Dhamma, having a sense of meaning — one who practices for both his own benefit and that of others, and one who practices for his own benefit but not that of others — the one who practices for his own benefit but not that of others is to be criticized for that reason, the one who practices for both his own benefit and that of others is, for that reason, to be praised."

— AN 7.64
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on November 30, 2011, 11:44:31 pm
"The world is a complex one"

Of course that doesn't need to bother you when you have a simple brain :lmfao:
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on November 30, 2011, 11:48:19 pm
Very simple, I just can look at my own intention. *smile* and remember other's that effects are just form their own intention. But there are many who have a not so simple brain I guess, full with juggler ethics well developed by complex thinking.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on November 30, 2011, 11:50:54 pm
Very simple, I just can look at my own intention.

Wow .... what in insight ... what if you considered this insight when posting? :)
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on November 30, 2011, 11:55:24 pm
Well their are so many confused Bodhisattva reminders. On what does one think unsupported by "I" "we" "you" when going for buying food? What might be the intention to buy this or that food? *smile* Tell me the supported unsupported way a modern practice has developed to come across this.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on November 30, 2011, 11:57:05 pm
Well their are so many confused Bodhisattva reminders. On what does one think unsupported by "I" "we" "you" when going for buying food?

Buying is no different from begging in this regard.

So you prefer starving?
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on November 30, 2011, 11:59:35 pm
What might be the intention to buy this or that food? *smile*
Avoid causing harm that doesn't necessarily have to be caused.

 :)
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on December 01, 2011, 12:04:29 am
Well their are so many confused Bodhisattva reminders. On what does one think unsupported by "I" "we" "you" when going for buying food?

Buying is no different from begging in this regard.

So you prefer starving?

Begging is the normal result form past deeds and does not lead to a better situation but the one or other might care some things out in this way. For sure it would give many a possibility to make Dana or just cleaning as compensation the conscience.

There are many, having been in the forest before who beg now, so much self produced possibility for paramis.

There was no begging suggested for people by the Buddha. *smile* Not in the way as a normal deal (merits for food exchange) but a different deal, support with food in exchange to abstain from harming.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on December 01, 2011, 12:07:04 am
What might be the intention to buy this or that food? *smile*
Avoid causing harm that doesn't necessarily have to be caused.
 :)
So in which way you avoid harming by the intention to buy plant food? You do you care your self for it in your garden with best intention? *smile*
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on December 01, 2011, 12:10:06 am
For sure it would give many a possibility to make Dana or just cleaning as compensation the conscience.

You could give it a try and post your bank account :lmfao:
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on December 01, 2011, 12:13:26 am
For sure it would give many a possibility to make Dana or just cleaning as compensation the conscience.

You could give it a try and post your bank account :lmfao:
Luckily/unluckily I can not serve with that. *smile* So no possibilities for compensations.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on December 01, 2011, 12:17:29 am
What might be the intention to buy this or that food? *smile*
Avoid causing harm that doesn't necessarily have to be caused.
 :)
So in which way you avoid harming by the intention to buy plant food?
I renounce the taste of meat and avoid contributing to the slaughter of animals, to the need to cultivate enormous amounts of soya to feed animals held for production of meat and avoid to contribute to the need for others to accumulate the karma of killing.
This is just a matter of my own intention. I cannot even say that harm is being reduced through this. It is just that if I did otherwise I would act against what I know due to mere attachment to taste.


You do you care your self for it in your garden with best intention? *smile*
I have no garden.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on December 01, 2011, 12:18:58 am
For sure it would give many a possibility to make Dana or just cleaning as compensation the conscience.

You could give it a try and post your bank account :lmfao:
Luckily/unluckily I can not serve with that. *smile* So no possibilities for compensations.

Because you have no account and you need none because you let others do the work for you.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on December 01, 2011, 12:26:33 am
What might be the intention to buy this or that food? *smile*
Avoid causing harm that doesn't necessarily have to be caused.
 :)
So in which way you avoid harming by the intention to buy plant food?
I renounce the taste of meat and avoid contributing to the slaughter of animals, to the need to cultivate enormous amounts of soya to feed animals held for production of meat and avoid to contribute to the need for others to accumulate the karma of killing.
This is just a matter of my own intention. I cannot even say that harm is being reduced through this. It is just that if I did otherwise I would act against what I know due to mere attachment to taste.
You know that an intention to buy meat causes harming and you honesty like to tell me that a intention to buy vegetable do not have similar effects?
So would somebody renounce for the taste of good food in the way he looks for alternatives which are pleasant?

You do you care your self for it in your garden with best intention? *smile*
I have no garden.
[/quote]
To grow his food by one self and look for one self what happens is a good possibility to understand Samsara. If anybody has the possibility to change his livelihood to a more honest way, one would decide well and it would cause that one can enjoy what he had done with best intention if one is not able to make the next step.
But that are just personal advices. Step by step.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on December 01, 2011, 12:28:43 am
For sure it would give many a possibility to make Dana or just cleaning as compensation the conscience.

You could give it a try and post your bank account :lmfao:
Luckily/unluckily I can not serve with that. *smile* So no possibilities for compensations.

Because you have no account and you need none because you let others do the work for you.
Those parasite, this people try following the Dhamma. I had mention it. They like to have fun and don't work for it. *smile* Some even order food.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on December 01, 2011, 12:31:41 am
You know that an intention to buy meat causes harming and you honesty like to tell me that a intention to buy vegetable do not have similar effects?
Yes, vegetable are no living beings


So would somebody renounce for the taste of good food in the way he looks for alternatives which are pleasant?
I just nuture my body.


To grow his food by one self and look for one self what happens is a good possibility to understand Samsara.
So I hope you are doing so and not have others do the job for you.

If anybody has the possibility to change his livelihood to a more honest way,
I would not consider it to be honest to have others do the work for oneself.

Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on December 01, 2011, 12:54:00 am
You know that an intention to buy meat causes harming and you honesty like to tell me that a intention to buy vegetable do not have similar effects?

Yes, vegetable are no living beings

Yes, yes I know... like told by the Buddha (http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/2Majjhima-Nikaya/Majjhima2/098-vasettha-e1.html) but even somebody is in that delusion or maybe thinks that if they are beings they are not that important and worthy to kill, do you think that your soya do not cost thousands of beings to be killed?
I know the argumentation of the meat buyer: "That meat is already death and so I do not cause death" unluckily the vegetable buyer have the same idea: "I only like the vegetable, my intention is not to kill animals for having it"

So would somebody renounce for the taste of good food in the way he looks for alternatives which are pleasant?

I just nuture my body.

Doing just that one would not have the intention to buy this or that. You might take that what is next or given, but not looking for something which could be unsupported by "I" "we" and "your" better for "I" "we" and "you". *smile*

To grow his food by one self and look for one self what happens is a good possibility to understand Samsara.

So I hope you are doing so and not have others do the job for you.

I did, yes I did. I could not see a reason why I should harm others so I also stopped this. Before I thought it would be a honest alternative, after I saw that vegetarian life is not very honest as the seek for pleasure (and the reason for suffering, grasping) would not calm down in this way of "free" choice regarding "non-living" beings which taking does not cause harm.

If anybody has the possibility to change his livelihood to a more honest way,

I would not consider it to be honest to have others let the word do for onesef.

The for one self might be the problem in this consideration. Other would not work for you. They would share what they have to much if you come across unexpected. Such a thought would be indite not good.
Thinking of what one normally takes to support the "I" the received food in balance what people would take normally is very less. To keep his body alive takes really less energy in contrast liking to be the good man. So such Buddha follower parasites are actually really silly they take just what is given and the "I am the good one, the doer, the helper" would even criticism him. And you know what, some even would take that burden for the sake of other and one self and the next generations. *smile*
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on December 01, 2011, 01:03:39 am
You know that an intention to buy meat causes harming and you honesty like to tell me that a intention to buy vegetable do not have similar effects?
Yes, vegetable are no living beings
Yes, yes I know...
I doubt that you know, but no need to stir again endless debates due to your ignorance.

So would somebody renounce for the taste of good food in the way he looks for alternatives which are pleasant?
I just nuture my body.
Doing just that one would not have the intention to buy this or that.
Why not combine the necessary with the benficial for others?


To grow his food by one self and look for one self what happens is a good possibility to understand Samsara.
So I hope you are doing so and not have others do the job for you.
I did, yes I did. I could not see a reason why I should harm others so I also stopped this. Before I thought it would be a honest alternative, after I saw that vegetarian life is not very honest as the seek for pleasure (and the reason for suffering, grasping) would not calm down in this way of "free" choice regarding "non-living" beings which taking does not cause harm.
Poor Hanzze, you have much to learn

The for one self might be the problem in this consideration. Other would not work for you. They would share what they have to much if you come across unexpected. Such a thought would be indite not good.
Thinking of what one normally takes to support the "I" the received food in balance what people would take normally is very less. To keep his body alive takes really less energy in contrast liking to be the good man. So such Buddha follower parasites are actually really silly they take just what is given and the "I am the good one, the doer, the helper" would even criticism him. And you know what, some even would take that burden for the sake of other and one self and the next generations. *smile*
Whatever you are fabricating just live up to your fabrications.

Kind regards
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on December 01, 2011, 01:15:02 am
You know that an intention to buy meat causes harming and you honesty like to tell me that a intention to buy vegetable do not have similar effects?
Yes, vegetable are no living beings
Yes, yes I know...
I doubt that you know, but no need to stir again endless debates due to your ignorance.
Doubt is good, and sometimes reading suttas from different views also. *smile* Or observing be one self, therefore one would need to change his shoes sometimes to know how it really is. Living room and nature give different views.

So would somebody renounce for the taste of good food in the way he looks for alternatives which are pleasant?
I just nuture my body.
Doing just that one would not have the intention to buy this or that.
Why not combine the necessary with the benficial for others?
That is the argument of "I wanna be the good man" if taking on one hand would be balanced with giving on the other side it would be a possibility to move on rather to seek a fast and secure way to pull out his own play cards form the game.
So the intention would be the try to be good by causing harm. Actually that is all men reason. Even the "mad" ones think in that way.  This idea grows very popular as you can see.
There is no perfection of paramis if on one hand is taking and on the other is giving, how could that be possible?

To grow his food by one self and look for one self what happens is a good possibility to understand Samsara.
So I hope you are doing so and not have others do the job for you.
I did, yes I did. I could not see a reason why I should harm others so I also stopped this. Before I thought it would be a honest alternative, after I saw that vegetarian life is not very honest as the seek for pleasure (and the reason for suffering, grasping) would not calm down in this way of "free" choice regarding "non-living" beings which taking does not cause harm.
Poor Hanzze, you have much to learn
Maybe, well some experiences do some good beside working on just ideas.

The for one self might be the problem in this consideration. Other would not work for you. They would share what they have to much if you come across unexpected. Such a thought would be indite not good.
Thinking of what one normally takes to support the "I" the received food in balance what people would take normally is very less. To keep his body alive takes really less energy in contrast liking to be the good man. So such Buddha follower parasites are actually really silly they take just what is given and the "I am the good one, the doer, the helper" would even criticism him. And you know what, some even would take that burden for the sake of other and one self and the next generations. *smile*
Whatever you are fabricating just live up to your fabrications.
For sure, as you told before. Maybe they could be from benefit for others *smile* and one self as well. It's a long journey.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: ground on December 01, 2011, 01:30:56 am
Well Hanzze

it is always that if one responds to any of your posts once then this is the start of an endless thread if one keeps responding to your replies.

But you keep on fantasizing your ideas and thus your obsessions get even worse and aggravated each time.

I cannot help you, sorry. But you seem to be in a serious situation. Obviously there is nobody that can help you where you are living right now and your seeking here in the internet only perpetuates your malady.

I hope you will be getting out of this trap.
Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Hanzze on December 01, 2011, 01:53:32 am
Was that my fabrication? *smile* Or once again a mirror?
Don't worry I am doing well, if you have the feeling that you need to help me, you know how you can: Take care of your intentions. No need for hope.

Don't forget, there are also wiser one, so there is no lose if the intention is good:

Quote
Fallen Mangoes ([url]http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/insimpleterms.html[/url])

Use your stillness to contemplate sights, sounds, smells, tastes, tactile sensations, and ideas that make contact, regardless of whether they're good or bad, happy or sad. It's as if a person has climbed a mango tree and is shaking it so that the mangoes fall to the ground. We're under the tree, gathering up the mangoes. We don't take the ones that are rotten. We take only the ones that are good. It doesn't waste our strength because we haven't climbed the mango tree. We just pick up what's on the ground.


No need to clime on the tree *smile* we can live on others work.


Title: Re: Soya Products
Post by: Karma Sonam on December 01, 2011, 11:58:47 am
many thanks Pickedpitbull.  I'll try and hunt some of these down.  :)
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