Author Topic: Is happiness a measure of your zen?  (Read 1222 times)

Offline BlackLooter

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Is happiness a measure of your zen?
« on: October 05, 2019, 03:50:49 am »
I think concentration and focus are obvious byproducts of practicing Zen..

But what is the true measure of success as far as Zen goes?

Is it valid to claim that happiness is its own reason for Zen..

Or should I say..can we measure Zen by the happiness in the individual?

If a person is happy...are they said to be good?
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Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Is happiness a measure of your zen?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2019, 03:57:37 am »
I would rather describe the effect as one of improving the quality of my life than giving me happiness. I gave it up for a while and noticed a certain lack of quality of my existence, although I wasn't exactly unhappy.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline stevie

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Re: Is happiness a measure of your zen?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2019, 05:21:32 am »
I do not practice zen but if I were you I would look into the teachings of the zen lineage you are following to find out what they say as to 'the true measure of success as far as Zen goes'.
It might be that 'the true measure of success' is to forget about all 'true measures' and all successes.

 :anjali:

Offline BlackLooter

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Re: Is happiness a measure of your zen?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2019, 09:28:33 pm »
Stevie are you referring to the "not-self"?
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Offline stevie

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Re: Is happiness a measure of your zen?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2019, 11:20:06 pm »
No. As I have written I am referring to the teaching of the zen lineage you are following which I do not  know. For me it is quite astonishing that you as a zen practitioner are talking about 'true measures' and 'success' because so far I have not experienced other zen practitioners talking that way.

 :anjali:

Online Chaz

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Re: Is happiness a measure of your zen?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 04:59:18 am »
For me it is quite astonishing that you as a zen practitioner are talking about 'true measures' and 'success' because so far I have not experienced other zen practitioners talking that way.

 :anjali:

While agree that it may be "misguided" to attempt to measure one's practice qualitatively or quantitatively, it is, nevertheless, something many, many people do with their practice, and there's nothing, really, wrong with it.  It's so commonplace that to say that we are astonished when we encounter it, is a bit of overstatement, kind of harsh, and, dare I say, perhaps even a bit insulting towards those our astonishment is directed towards.

It was an honest question.

Offline stevie

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Re: Is happiness a measure of your zen?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2019, 09:57:57 am »
For me it is quite astonishing that you as a zen practitioner are talking about 'true measures' and 'success' because so far I have not experienced other zen practitioners talking that way.

 :anjali:

While agree that it may be "misguided" to attempt to measure one's practice qualitatively or quantitatively, it is, nevertheless, something many, many people do with their practice, and there's nothing, really, wrong with it.  It's so commonplace that to say that we are astonished when we encounter it, is a bit of overstatement, kind of harsh, and, dare I say, perhaps even a bit insulting towards those our astonishment is directed towards.

It was an honest question.

I think you have gotten my words wrongly. It's been astonishing for me because all zen practitioners I'v been talking to so far rejected the idea of 'progress on the path', 'successful practice' and the like. In contrast to these zen practitioners, I as a non-zen practioner, am a fan of marks of progress on the path. But each time I raised that topic when encountering zen practioners they either outrightly rejected my views about the path or they ridiculed me.
So it is not that I reject the question of BlackLooter. It is just that I am astonished that he/she as a zen practioners asks such a question because of my experience with other zen practiitioners. And since all I could respond to his/her question is definitely not based on zen teachings which is why I referred him/her to the teaching of his/her zen lineage.

 :anjali:

Offline BlackLooter

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Re: Is happiness a measure of your zen?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 10:31:01 pm »
I've read books on Zen..

I go with the idea that nothing you can think of..is worth absolutely nothing..

That is to say...that whatever your thoughts are...they don't happen for no reason..

Particularly I see the idea that you can weigh a thoughts content for truth...and then label it or give it a tag of the percentage that it is valid..for its ultimate meaning..

So therefore if you can find value in a thought..you then ask what is the categorical imperative of that particular thought and such and such./..

So a thought like ?"Can you measure your zen by the amount of happiness you are feeling or have achieved?"

You might say that the low percentage meaning of that thought is say 23%

And the high value of that thought being 87%

Then you can take averages and things like that...

I don't understand any meditation that makes you or has you going out of your way to stop a natural process...
Freedom reigns over everything!

Offline stevie

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Re: Is happiness a measure of your zen?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2019, 02:18:51 am »
So that's your private approach to zen? I do not mind at all. The problem however is that questions based on private approaches rarely yield responses that are useful in that private sphere.

 :anjali:

 


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