Author Topic: Rinzai or Soto?  (Read 2210 times)

Offline Kalachakra

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Rinzai or Soto?
« on: November 23, 2009, 01:54:37 pm »
Content deleted.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 11:20:56 pm by Wonky Badger »

Hungr Ghost

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 02:23:07 pm »
Where do you place Son Kala?   The division you speak of is not needed.

Moderator's note: Removed comments that could have been seen as offensive, according to post report.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 02:24:18 am by Wonky Badger »

dharmagoat

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 02:27:58 pm »
Please refrain, Hungry Ghost. I can't help but feel you are jumping the gun here.

Offline Dainin

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 02:46:11 pm »
What if we're both? My teacher is recognized in both schools.

Offline Dae Bi

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2009, 01:00:22 am »
I'm Korean Seon,  but mostly follow the style of Lin Chi (Rinzai).   By the way Cha'n (Chinese) Seon (Korean)  Thien (Vietnamese) and Zen (Japanese)  mean the same in their respective languages.
I am he as you are he and we are all together.
                                                                           The Beatles

First there is a mountain then there is no mountain,
then there is.
                       Donovan

Offline Wonky Badger

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2009, 02:55:37 am »
So what do you think, guys? Can we all get along in one Zen forum or should we split it into serveral?
My actions are my only true belongings.
I cannot escape the consequences of my actions.
My actions are the ground on which I stand.
---
What would Buddha do?

Offline Quiet Heart

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2009, 06:45:38 am »
I guess I made the original suggestion...I won't stop anyone who feels the need to open another sub subforum if they feel it's needed.
Myself, I would strat with one Zen subforum...and let that develop as it does...in whatever direction it goes.
That is to me more a Zen way of doing it.
But as for me I'm just "buying vegetables" as the story goes.
Just for the record...I'm not a "practitioner" of any tradition.
I prefer to just call myself a STUDENT of Zen.
There's a difference.

m0rl0ck

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 04:30:50 pm »
So what do you think, guys? Can we all get along in one Zen forum or should we split it into serveral?

Having praticed both, chan and japanese zen are different. Different meditation practices and teaching methods. i wouldnt mind seeing a chan subforum, if others think its appropriate. Early days yet tho.

Offline Wonky Badger

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2009, 12:34:00 am »
Having praticed both, chan and japanese zen are different. Different meditation practices and teaching methods. i wouldnt mind seeing a chan subforum, if others think its appropriate. Early days yet tho.

I don't know so much about all the Zen flavours. Would Seon and Thien fit into the same subforum as Chan or are they too different?
My actions are my only true belongings.
I cannot escape the consequences of my actions.
My actions are the ground on which I stand.
---
What would Buddha do?

Offline Dae Bi

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2009, 02:40:14 am »
They all have different flavours.   However,  where the similarities lie, are, in some cha'n  and Seon, there is a similarity to  soto (Cao dong), though  most is similar to Rinzai (Lin Chi).  Thien is now mostly synthesied Lin Chi and pureland, however some straight Lin Chi Thien exists.
I am he as you are he and we are all together.
                                                                           The Beatles

First there is a mountain then there is no mountain,
then there is.
                       Donovan

m0rl0ck

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2009, 02:47:08 am »
They all have different flavours.   However,  where the similarities lie, are, in some cha'n  and Seon, there is a similarity to  soto (Cao dong), though  most is similar to Rinzai (Lin Chi).  Thien is now mostly synthesied Lin Chi and pureland, however some straight Lin Chi Thien exists.

afiak chan is commonly found alongside pureland, which accounts for some of its differences i think. and chan uses both lin chi and cao dong methods as you said.

thornbush

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2009, 02:57:06 am »
One example....
From my experience with Ch'an practitioners, especially with common practitioners, I have never come across those (at least in my country) who will be so sectarian as to which stream they belong to be they Linji, Caodong, Guiyang, Fayan and Yunmen (So far I have only found the first three lineages in my country) but rather they maintain an open attitude to learn Ch'an and as they progress, the chosen Ch'an lineage/emphasis is based on their personal preference and spiritual journey rather than insisting on a fixated distinctness. Of course, those who remain with one kind of practice would be seen as deepening their understanding and specializing within it. Of course, there's always the hair splitters in life...
So mention Ch'an, Zen, Seon and they will think its all the same but of course details matter to the discerning few... 

But for the sake of Forum discussions.....
Maybe, one can rename this Forum as 'Zen/Ch'an/Seon/Thien' instead of splitting it into 4 and suffer the overload sub forums in some and empty in others....at least in this early stage
1. for the sake of various methodologies and specifics of each Trad/School/Lineage
2. when people discuss, this Forum covers all types of Dhyana practice as found in the Mahayana East Asian context both in their country of origin and beyond those borders
3. when people post, they are to mention the specific intended:
e.g 'What is Zen?' Then the thread responses should be in the context of Zen in Japan and the non-Japan Zen experience/methodology/specs/literature/links and so forth. That way it becomes more focused and intended for the OP and all who wished to learn on Dhyana in the Zen context and capacity. Perhaps this is where the Moderator's keen eye and self moderation on the part of posters is most crucial to keep it focused
and 'clean' and suggest to non relevant ones to create a new topic discussion instead of silent random deletion.
4. So based on the above, this would cater to all in general and specifics, not favouring any particular one and becoming a resource for all.
5. Perhaps later, when this site matures, with enough resources in balancing all represented Trads/Lineages/Schools, then it can be separated accordingly and a 5th subforum created for 'General Zen/Ch'an/Seon/Thien' for misc stuff like comparative analysis of 2 or more various Trads.

Am I making sense? Thank you for reading  ;D

Offline Wonky Badger

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 01:10:49 am »
thornbush, I will change the forum name, as you suggest, for now. Let's see if the others feel that it's OK.
My actions are my only true belongings.
I cannot escape the consequences of my actions.
My actions are the ground on which I stand.
---
What would Buddha do?

Offline kindergarden

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Re: Rinzai or Soto?
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2009, 05:50:06 pm »
An interesting discussion...  :buddha:

 


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